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If fuel has historically never stripped your paint, and a new fuel is represented as being essentially a drop-in for the old fuel, but it does strip your paint, I don't think the leaks are the issue. Tanks will develop leaks, whether they have bladders or wet wings or integral tanks or whatever, and if the new way of finding a leak is that that paint gets stripped off, I think that's a highly undesirable feature of the fuel.

Are you saying that the photos in the PAFI lessons learned (page 7) are misleading and not from a candidate fuel, but from 100LL? https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/PAFI_Fuel_Development_Testing_Lessons_Learned.pdf

Can’t say enough good things about Edison at KFXE. Bought my Bravo in Sept 23 and I knew there were leaks. Brian K did the best he could to patch the tanks up. I made an appointment with Paul in MN Jan 24 and looked in my calendar for the Feb appointment. No joy. Called Paul and learned it’s Feb 2026. Ugh Dec 30 I topped up and found leaking rivets in the wing walk area. Discovered bad weeping in both wheel wells. This was not going to work. I called Edison on Dec 31 at 1500 CST. Said he had 1 slot last week in Jan, 2 in Feb, 0 in March and 4 in April. I explained my dilemma in that the plane needed to be back in TX by Jan 31 for its annual. He said get it to him and he’d start it right away. 23 hours later, I pulled onto the ramp in KFXE. He planned on finishing by 1/26. It was completed 1/23. He was excellent in communicating the status, pointed out areas he found that needed attention outside the scope of the job quoted and even redid my sad looking wing walk area. He only does Mooneys and can do 4 per month. I give him two enthusiastic thumbs up. My quote, $6,800 per tank. He replaced both sump drains and repaired corroded areas. 28 nut plates, 432 SS screws and removed the interior panels to tighten L/R tank pickup fittings. $15,900. Seven year transferable warranty and $300 for any repair after that. Not cheap, but competitively priced. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's odd. If that were from 100LL, I would expect to see some blue staining, but instead, there is some brown residue. It is disturbing that the same photos are in the PAFI document of Lessons Learned. Providing the source of these pictures could help clear up the confusion.

Mostly from a long XC on the 13th (KFFL to 2S0) but the last picture of an undercast was on the 15th taking off from 2S0 to KTTD for annual. If you look closely at the fuel planning on the 750 in the cockpit picture you'll notice I only have a 20 minute reserve at my destination. Also, I'm at 8,000'. So you should expect me to be IFR. Well, the short version is that I ended up changing my destination to stop and get fuel earlier. As it turns out though, I didn't need to, because as I went further West the headwinds got lighter so I would have had plenty at KBYG, as was calculated by ForeFlight to begin with. But sitting there for an hour looking at the fuel remaining being that low got the better of me and amended my flight plan. Then I was too proud to go and change it back. hahah. The two 'dark' pictures are at night, it was the full moon then and with the snow and full moon, it was plenty bright to see everything!

Thanks for putting yourself out there. I know it drives ME nuts reading comments from people who clearly didn’t bother to watch. I can only imagine your frustration.

The impulse coupling is a simple mechanism. I would just pull the mag and look at it. One thing you can check without pulling the mag, is just pull the prop through and see if it still snaps. If it doesn’t you could have a broken spring or the post fell out.

Finally getting around to starting the MVP 50 install Spent a couple days removing the unneeded instruments and 50 years of unused wiring and garbage. There’s no turning back now Also moving the number 2 nav/com and transponder from the right side to the center radio stack.

While technically not a winning bid from a salvage auction, my very good friend in Texas (Mark Hasse, sadly flew west in 2012, God rest his soul) won a sealed bid from some tiny county in the Carolinas on a '65 310K. All the listing said was something to the effect of "Seized/forfeited aircraft; Cessna 310; locked with no keys; no known records; seized in drug raid; unknown condition, sold as-is, where-is". All interested parties were to send in written sealed bids via US Postal service to the county clerk (in other words, the selling entity wasn't aviation-related at all). Nearly wincing at the potential of offending the county, he sent in a bid for $10,000.00, thinking the IO470 cores would be worth at least double that (this was in the early 'aughts). He then went about his usual business and forgot all about his bid. About 3 months later, he gets a call out of the blue from the "X County Courthouse". He was a retired prosecutor/lawyer at the time, so getting a call from a "county Courthouse" wasn't altogether unusual. He answered and the very nice lady on the other end of the line said, "Mr Hasse, congratulations, you won the bid." "What bid?", he replied. She said, "the airplane that was seized here in South Carolina in the drug raid". He then remembered his sealed bid. She told him he was literally the only bidder. Now to the juiciest parts of any similar aviation auction/sealed bid-related story you'll ever hear: Mark was a consummate A&P/IA and an extremely cunning individual. He flew commercial out to see his "new-to-him" acquisition imposed upon him by the local authorities by virtue of his forgotten-bid (evidently the listing in the aviation auction periodical where he found out about it in the first place wasn't completely accurate, or at least had scared off everyone else because it made everyone think that the aircraft had actually been used in running drugs to and fro and was thus seized during an actual drug raid--it hadn't been and suffered no such fate. It was merely owned by some local idiot who had been caught running drugs elsewhere and this was merely an asset of his). Anyway, back to the story: Mark arrives at the county courthouse to give them his $10,000.00 cashiers check. The nice lady there giving him his bill of sale then tells him "go to the airport and ask for Jed. He'll take great care of you. Thanks so much for helping us out with this nightmare airplane problem." Still thinking he got a complete piece of crap, Mark then hops in his rental car and goes to the airport where the aircraft was sitting on the ramp, still in its "seized state", all locked up without keys or "records". Mark hoped that the old wives-tale about all 1960s-era Cessna locks being identical to unserialized Samsonite luggage locks was true. By damn, it was true. With less effort spent than tying his shoelaces, he was able not only to unlock the cockpit door, he also unlocked both nacelle lockers and guess what was inside? Yep, all records, from new, with fresh annual sign-off and fresh, complete OH on both engines AND props, full-stop--the owner had evidently overspent some of that hard-earned drug running money on his own airplane and had just returned to his local airport from that lengthy, extraordinarily expensive shop visit. Icing on the cake was that the other engine nacelle locker had 4 sets of brand new DC headsets. Remember "Jed"? Well, Jed was the local groundskeeper at this tiny little county airport in the middle of fly-over Carolina and explained to Mark that the county seized all of the owner's property because he was a known, local drug dealer and hadn't paid his property taxes. This was never a "drug seizure" and the aircraft was never involved in anything nefarious. Mark corroborated this with the local FBO guy, too (Mark used his jacks and shop to do his own gear-swing and ferry flight permit inspection to fly it back to his own shop for further eval in TX). My buddy got a great twin that I flew in with him for dozens of hours in later years for about 10% of its market-value, all for responding to a no-pictures, written ad in an auction periodical from some tiny, random county in the Carolinas who truly had no idea a) how to properly list a aircraft for sale; and b) how to determine its true condition and c) literally gave zero effort to even try to unlock the aircraft and find out what was inside. The local sheriff just wanted it gone and the lovely clerk at the courthouse saw to it that it was gone with minimal effort. PS--this story is 100% true, even down to the county waving any and all ramp fees/storage and they even paid a full fuel top-off since Mark was "so nice and pleasant to deal with". With ode and respect to my great friend Mark Hasse, Rockwall, TX. A true gem, if there ever was one on this planet. May he rest in peace.

It does sound like it could be the impulse coupling, especially if you got some backwards energy during start attempts. And, yes, the impulse coupling should be part of a normal 500-hour/IRAN or overhaul. It is considered part of the magneto.

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with Brandon Rakes who is the manager of the Chehalis WA airport. They recently put in two12,000 gallon above ground tanks (100LL and JetA). Cost all in (engineering, site prep, tank and pump equipment purchase, installation, permits, etc.) was $1.2-million. He said they considered a third tank for unleaded but could not figure out how to make it pencil out assuming they will only need a single avgas tank in 5 years if 100LL goes away.

I don’t want to make assumptions, but it sounds like you are suggesting that tanks that have not leaked yet with 100LL have issues that have not manifested until g100UL was introduced? This may well be true, but if the wrong sealant, or poor workmanship was sufficient for 100LL, why would gami push it over the edge? I suppose I am resigned to the reality that this issue will likely be pushed on us prematurely, regardless of the challenges, so I would think most of us just want to know what the issues actually are. I am getting ready to paint my Mooney. I have zero evidence of any leaks this far, and my inspections of the sealant show it to be in very good condition. The plane was likely sealed around 2006, given it is a 2007 year model, and given that it’s been 20 years with no issues, no repairs to be suspect of, I see no reason to reseal my tanks prior to paint. I also have no reason to believe the Mooney factory would use the wrong sealant. What I have done is ask scheme designers who is helping me write a paint specification, and they contacted Gami for help tailoring the paint spec. This is to ensure I don’t use “substandard”, products and methods, and to avoid having paint failures if I have to use gami’s fuel in the future. There has been so much discussion regarding wrong paint, bad sealant, improper materials etc etc. I would hope you guys can provide some guidance so if I do have a paint failure, so it won’t be a result of the interaction between my work and your fuel. Bottom line, what is the “right” sealant, paint, primer should I use to avoid adverse reactions with your fuel?

Dropped Mooney for it's annual plus right side rank reseal at the MSC shop in Netherlands, it was a quick trip from France with 80kts tailwind (we had 940hp or 27.72" depression over UK), bumpy surface wind but aligned with runway: I probably used less than 400ft for takeoff and landing ! In the hangar, I saw what it looks like an unwanted child from an affair between GeeBee and J3Cub? flying is getting expensive: downsize from J3 to single seater version this one looked very cold and tiny

There are four busy reseal shops; in geographic order, North to South: Weep No More in Minnesota Don Maxwell in East Texas Houston Tank Specialists in Houston Wet Wingologist East in Ft. Lauderdale (Edison did a great job on my tanks in 2009) If you're on the Left Coast, there's an MSC in Oregon whose name escapes me right now (Troutdale, OR?) who may do tank work, or know someone else who does.

While this is reasonable advice, I'm pleased to say the lead time on tank reseals isn't quite as bad as people seem to think, unless you're simply unwilling to have it done anywhere other than Weep No More in Willmar. Dmax is doing a strip-and-reseal on our airplane starting next week, via an appointment we booked in December; and this thread details a good experience by a Mooney owner at Wet Wingologists, who worked him in on one month's notice. Not disputing that Weep No More is the defacto standard, king of the hill and all that. But there are other choices with similar equipment, reputations and warranties, and much shorter lead times.

I agree with you. Either it is drop in and it works with all vintages or it is not and guardrails will need to be put in place.

Don't piss on someone else's posting unless you have all the facts (and even then, not, unless it is a scammer). Look at his invoice and see all the extras he bought over and above the GI-275 and 4 cylinder kit. The '4 cylinder' kit is not a complete sensor kit. Then start adding up the costs for the OAT, pressure transducers etc. I've gone through the exercise of adding up all the requirements and wiring harnesses for the GI-275, and the end result is somewhere between the price of a JPI EDM900 and 930. There are pro's and con's of all engine monitor systems. Some of the things that I like about the GI-275 - more transducer selection options (lower price than JPI), smaller footprint, compatible with previous FF and other transducers. Aerodon

If you were remotely considering a tank reseal in the next year or two; I'd be calling now to get in line...

No, the Mooney it’s not turbo charge. I’ve IO-360.

@Shawn26 Does your Mooney by any chance have a turbocharged Lycoming 540? The Saratoga I'm dealing with has a TIO-540-S1AD that goes up to 36" at sea level. I just noticed in some of the video documentation from my run-ups that my "2350 rpm" border so happens to correlate where the MP exceeds atmospheric (roughly 30" where I am). The Bendix D3000 on this plane isn't pressurized, so I can't see a valid reason why MP would affect the magneto's operation, but it's something that got my attention.

The sealant on top could be deteriorated and it will evaporate. Also check inside at the wing root for a leak into the cabin. Pull some panels at the leading edge and check the front spar.

@NickG if you zoom in on the face of the camloc there's a number that corresponds to the length. Those look small enough that they're probably 2700's. So if the number on the face is "3" for example, it's a 2700-3. Another quick and easy way to order the right one is to find one that is clearly marked on the face, then use it in the place you need and see if it fits. There are two types of washers that can be used, but you don't "have" to use a washer. I think under a certain size, or with certain applications, you might not be able to fit a washer. These washers work on both the 2700 and 2600 camlocs. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/camlocwashers.php https://anemo.eu/retaining-washers%3A-when-use-v2600-lw-7-when-use-2600-sw SW-2: split washer, allows the camloc to pull back but the washer keeps the horizontal posts at the end from coming out. So retention is loose. LW: the starred lock washer that grips around the barrel of the camloc and secures the camloc to the surface of the piece it's used in. See the Anemo document linked for a better description.

Where did you find this image, exactly? Did you add the caption or was it found that way? you should probably be aware that that is NOT damage from 100LL and could, in fact, be damage from G100UL

So I found an IPC and it seems to be a 2700-3S STud and a 2600W2 Washer??

You should have a few spares of those. You can see some have already been replaced because some are straight and some are Phillips. I kind of like the straight blade fasteners because you can tell if they are fastened properly by looking at the slot, but the Phillips are easier to put in. As for the part number, it is the time in your airplane ownership journey that you learned to use the IPC.

J model,low time airframe , newer year model, new paint, New engine and prop= Heck of a deal on this plane, IMHO. For those of you in the market, better take a look here.

https://aslcamguard.com/aviation/

Certainly seems, despite other attributes, that aviation oil is grossly overpriced!

@George Braly Your response confused me as I thought it obvious from your previous criticisms of existing 'old' tanks that you would understand my point: My existing tanks are NOT causing me a problem with 100LL. As near as I can tell from the logs they have never been stripped and resealed; that's 55 years. Yes, they have been patched several times, including twice for the right tank during my 7 years of ownership; the left has never given me need to. IOW, very low cost tank maintenance. Any and all 'stains' from an occasional spill have been EASILY and completely cleaned by a rag dipped in 100LL! Even if that's a week later, or more, later. I suspect that I'm NOT the only one in this situation: a perfectly acceptable tank state; not perfect, but NOT requiring a $14,000 reseal. The fact that, at some point in the future, that may be required does NOT justify the acceptance of ANY fuel that will move that future expenditure to the PRESENT. Put another way, we are perfectly happy with the present state of our perhaps sub-standard, but acceptable, tanks and do NOT wish to jeopardize that situation.

This is terrifying me, I have a g500txi as the only engine monitor and my dual mag is coming up on it's 500 hour and I was trying to figure out how to get the mag to van nuys until this thread popped up (the plane is new to me as of September, so I haven't gone through any of this yet).

I would say it is probably accurate if you drop the lower cowl. It is pain. And you do have to get to the Right rear bolt on the starter. What I do is take the alternator off to get to that bolt. By taking the alternator off you don't have to drop the lower cowl. Getting to the mounting bolts on the alternator are a pain. If you went from the Prestolite starter to a newer one then they had to do some mods to the front baffling around the starter. Also count updating the paperwork and Weight and Balance update. Also might need to update Equipment list. I would put it that for the most part they did not pad the hours, It really could take someone that long. Next time try asking what they thing it will take to do the work before work is started. I always write the check out for the Annual more than what is on the bill, and he makes me do most of the work.

@George Braly Respectfully, there's a difference in a wet wing that leaked shortly after sealing (due to bad sealant, improper technique, or due to damage to the structure) and a leak that results from the implementation of a new fuel. You are quick to condemn the Mooney sealant technique, Cirrus application technique, and wet wings in general. But the hard reality is that these are 100% a part of not only the general aviation fleet, but a standard practice to use wet wings in aviation in general. It is very clearly understood that you want to convey that any leaks seen from using G100UL are due to poor sealant product, poor sealant application, and wet wings in general. But there are lots of Mooneys on here, and out there, who have seen 25-40 years before substantial leaks on their wet wings requiring resealing. It's yet to be seen if G100UL will be able to have the same track record. It's also more concerning if cases of leaking G100UL may result in significant paint damage when that's not typically something that has been routinely seen with 100LL. Certainly there is benefit to having the BEST paint, the BEST sealant, the BEST hoses/o-rings/etc for the job. BUT for a fleet of aircraft that spans back to the 1960's (and in some cases much older) all the way to today, there are exceedingly few that have the newest and best currently and the best for long. In our minds, "drop in fuel" means fly what you have.

what's your point? Tanks leak yes. do all our tanks decided to start leaking within a week of using G100UL? I doubt it.

Don’t get too excited about the tailwinds. You have to come home sometime.

Just bought this M20E and I’m working on the new interior. Planning to start my paint on october, but I haven’t decided yet the design, I’d appreciate ideas! Kaio Rangel from Brazil!

Well finally figured out what the issue was. Looks like the gear motor is on the way out, it would intermittently work then not work depending on if it got smacked or not.

Likewise, our homeowner’s insurance in Florida tripled in 2023 as all but one name exited the market. Why did they exit? Fraud, mostly, and not hurricanes, which are pretty well baked into the cake by the actuaries. What it is is fraud, especially roof damage claims filed by criminal roofing contractors who were taking advantage of assignment of benefit agreements being, well, assignable. Inflate the claim, absorb the deductible, and win/win for property owner and contractor. Not so much for the insurance company. I don’t have the source material handy, but I read that in 2021 or 2022, of the dozen or so companies underwriting homeowners’ policies, only one made money. The economics of suing a stack of contractors over $10,000 to $30,0000 roof jobs isn’t very good. The Florida legislature did put a stop to the assignment of benefits stuff, and we were pleasantly surprised that our current-year policy reverted to the old rate with a new entrant into the market. My son, who is a meteorology student, is involved in a company/project that packages soundings, radar imagery, and other stuff for insurance companies to help validate or invalidate hail claims. Whatever fraud can be ironed out of the system benefits the honest players, though not at the expense of wrongly denied coverage, one would hope. -dan

Unfortunately insurance coverage quality can never been really vetted until you have an incident. My experience has never been good with anything but car insurance. I had a policy for my Aerostar from a top rated insurer, I actually paid extra to get them on the recommendation of my agent. I had to move my airplane for an annual prior to sept 30th. The shop I moved it to happened to be in the path of a hurricane. I called my agent and informed them of my planes status. I told them I would find a way to move the plane if necessary and they assured me that my coverage was solid and I needed to do nothing. Well, it was damaged in the hurricane and they then informed me that I had a 10% deductible because it was a named storm. I appealed this and was denied. My recommendation is buy the cheapest possible option you can find in any situation because they will move heaven and earth to avoid paying any claim. My commercial building insurance went from 16k to 89k in one year with a 250k deductible. I finally had enough and told them to pound sand. It is a necessary evil for many things, but that entire industry across all markets and purposes is broken beyond repair.

I'll just put on a coat take my automatic out and have fun

On an older F/G/C/E the bottom cowling, which is required to come off, is not as easy as you think especially for 1 person. its at least a couple of hours to get it off. swapping the older starters for the new one is not built on and probably required some “modifications “ depending on what alternator is on it. putting the bottom cowling back on is worse and again not easily a 1 person job. It can be a major hassle depending on the hardware. all this aggravated by not having quarter turns. 12 doesn’t really sound that far off, especially not if 2 people worked on it. no you cannot take that full cowling off and on in 2 hours. it was a lot more work than you probably thought it was.

That is not uncommon, assuming the pump was assembled correctly and the bleed down screw is correct. The flap pump is very difficult to get primed, and until it does it tends to just pump air. You can’t even bleed the system until you start pumping fluid. Worst case is you pull the pump assembly back out and pre-load the cylinder and re-install. Once it starts pumping fluid, the process goes fairly quickly. Usually, though, you just keep pumping the handle and slowly enough fluid gets into the cylinder that it starts pumping and you can bleed the air out of the slave cylinder at the back. Good luck, it’s actually a very good system that tends to work really well- once you get it done.

I'm a fan of LOP ops and consistently run my 1989 TLS/Bravo at the same power settings every flight, unless I want to pull it back for sight seeing. I posted this in another thread, repeating it here to offer a different perspective. On the LOP side at 11-12,000’ I see 165-170KTAS at 13.2gph (70%) and 30”/2200RPM. I also have TKS. For reference, here’s a screen shot of my G3X at 6,000’. Adding 2 KTAS per thousand feet up to 12,000’ the math shows 170KTAS, which of course will vary with OAT/ISA offset.

Happy new year to all Mooniacs ! First flight in Mooney (second flight of 2025): quick trip to Amiens (LFAY), cold weather here in Normandy but nothing compared to “freezing bones” in Chicago The first flight of 2025 was Wing-Shift ULM (sort unregulated LSA), takeoff on skis at 9500ft elevation on top of Alps, a very short flight though: at -15C, this is the best fun one can have with LOT of their cloths on, it did not last more than 15min my wife complained about flying in freezing cold on “something that looks like motorcycle”, I reassured her that it makes us younger: the cold help to preserve meat for long conservation, this analogy did not go very well

I used dry silicone spray so it doesn’t attract dirt.

I find that I sometimes need to use my finger to 'help' the vane to move off center, then turning will close the vent.

Just a follow-up to this for future answer seekers: We ended up replacing the impulse coupling. The spring tension was not adequate. Starting is back to norm. Thanks all for the ideas and experiences

@LANCECASPER An interesting argument. But the tacit assumption is that seller overpaid for a 'poorly' equipped plane in the first place. More likely he got a good price (based exactly upon your point). So, if he invests nothing in upgrades I don't see how he going to lose out when it comes time for him to sell. Naturally, a salesman like Jimmy WANTS to encourage owners to add expensive upgrades. As you point out, it is much easier to sell! I think the best way to look at this is if adding and using upgrades is part of your enjoyment of flying, and you can accept that enjoyment is going to cost you 50 cents on the dollar, then go for it. But I would caution that the loss may exceed 50% on a lower value aircraft. E.g. putting $50K in upgrades into a $40K airplane is unlikely to make it sell for even $65K.

Correct. Why should I pay depreciation when somebody else will? Same analysis, I don't want or need most new car features. I have my iPhone for times I need nav help. My cars aren't so old as to not have all the creature comforts. While I realize 'it wasn't a quote', it should be representative of reality. It started at $20K, then you posited $30K...if it gets to $40K (which I think is closer to the truth for what you listed after install and tax) that's pretty much 100% more than the original 'for $20K' you could... Just to be clear, if that's what you enjoy spending your money on then more power to you! My issue has been with the 'you should' because 'it's safer'....the implication being I'm an unsafe pilot simply because I won't upgrade. (Not saying YOU said that)

Lycoming shipped my A3B6 with Slick mags: 4372 (impulse coupling) on the left and 4370 (no impulse coupling) on the right. That is the condition that SHOULD have the strap installed as the purpose of the strap is to ground out the right mag so it doesn't operate during starting. Since the right mag doesn't have the impulse coupling, the spark will not be retarded during start and it will fire the plugs too early at the low cranking rpm without the strap. You only remove the strap if you have two impulse mags installed or if you have the dual mag on the A3B6D. Check with your A&P. Skip