Damage history

[triple8s]

Ok I have a question and I figured here would be the BEST place to get the answer. If a person was looking at trading and found a bird, liked it, worked out a price, knew it had damage history but was ok with it, ok with the repair, everything was documented, we still have a reduction in value. The question is, how MUCH of a reduction in value? I had asked this from a friend in the biz and was told 30%, whats the thoughts guys?

[231Pilot]

Much depends on how recent the damage was...the older the damage, the less it affects the value of the aircraft. 

[PTK]

Your question doesn't have a simple answer. It depends on several factors. What kind of damage history, the extent of the damage, how many repairs the airframe has had, the quality of the repairs, how long ago did the damage occur and the current condition of the airframe.

A proper appraisal should be done with the necessary research in order to arrive at a fair number.

One thing is certain. Aircraft branded with "damage hx" are much harder to sell. This may or may not be a fair perception. Older aircraft are also much harder for a bank to finance, even more so with "damage hx". If you buy it and decide to sell it later, you and your potential buyers will have to deal with this market perception.

 

Again a proper appraisal is called for.

[N601RX]

To me it would depend on what was damaged.  If the repairs were mostly bolt on parts such as gear, doors, belly, tail or perhaps an outboard wing skin it wouldn't bother me. If it was a couple of inboard skins, ribs, spar or stub spar, or multiple sections of skins, I would be very concerned.

[chrisk]

For me too, it also depends on the type of damage.   A gear up that has been properly fixed doesn't bother me at all, and may even be a positive if it got a one piece belly, a newer prop, and a lower time rebuilt engine from a quality shop.  

 

On the other hand, if tubing was replaced because of SB208, I know there was moisture and rust inside the plane.   Maybe it spent a lot of time outside?  It's not technically damage history, but....

[John Pleisse]

11% for a gear up on a Mooney. Many suggest that the longer an a/c has flown since DH, the less of a deduction should be made, until finally at about the 1000 hour mark, there would be no deduction. I don't buy into this for one simple reason. You can't change history.

 

There are numerous threads here on MS about DH, with hair-splitting, confrontational and very esoteric analysis.

 

A good trade is hard to come by if you need it for tax purposes. I would be keen about how badly they want your plane. If they seem a little over the top, perhaps it is not because your plane is that good, but instead, theirs is that bad. Frankly, all the time spent investigating a repaired airframe for a nominal discount, could be spent searching elsewhere. It's like asking a young lady with issues to the prom. Look elsewhere.

[AmigOne]

A few years ago I bought a 62 Ranger (in partnership) that had a gear up. The airplane was beautiful and had equipment I do not have now in my 68 Ranger, paid good money for it (never discounted for the gear up). Sold it almost for what I had paid for it 3 years later because I lost my partner and I wanted to try another airplane. The airplane belonged to the son in law of a NASCAR owner who owns several airplanes and a maintenance shop. To me and the next owner the accident history did not affect the transaction because the airplane was beautiful. Like asking a lady with issues (but gorgeous) to the prom.

[Cruiser]

Damage history like high time airframes get undeserved criticism in my book.

An automatic deduction for damage. Why?

If the damage was repaired properly and it does not NOW effect the appearance or performance it is no different than replacing avionics or overhauling an engine or repainting.

For those that say they would never consider a damage history airplane, you are missing some very good quality choices. 

[smccray]

My airplane had a wing skin replaced in 1988 or 1989 by the Mooney factory.  Not sure why that would deserve a reduction in value- the factory put the first one on then replaced it with a new wing skin.  There's a gear up in its history at about the same time.  The plane has flown ~4k hours since since the damage was repaired along with 20+ annual inspections.  I'm certain some people wouldn't be interested in my plane on the basis of damage history, but that's their choice.  I don't factor in any value reduction to the plane over the 5k hrs on the airframe.  I'm not trying to sell it so it doesn't really matter, but that's not to say my plane isn't for sale...at the right price .

[triple8s]

Ok, it is VERY recent damage, I saw it before, during and after, I flew it yesterday and it flies great. climb out it pulls left pretty hard but its P factor, (not used to a 6  Cyl) climb up and level off its hands off straight and feels just like my C model besides the fact that we're doing an additional 40 kias. The damage didnt involve the spar but it did involve a skin and I saw inside and out, like i said I watched the progress. So a wingskin and some skin on the tail. I have to make an offer within a couple of days and was thinking maybe doing a Vref on AOPA and knocking off a percentage for the damage. My thoughts are after it was owned/flown for several years the damage history wouldnt be as big a deal. Oh and I realize all the damage has to be reflected in the logs and shown as being repaired in accordance with proper guidlines I have help on going through that. Just wanted a guage as to how much to deduct. I'm thinking atleast 20% off of what a comparable ttaf tsmoh and avionics etc

[Mooneymite]

Complex question.

 

If you decide you are going to keep the plane forever and let your heirs sell it, the actual condition of the plane is paramount and history is not particularly important except as it affects how the plane flies.

 

However, most of us know we'll be sellers "someday".  Even though age of the aircraft, time since repair, type of repair, etc all are factors, you just can't get away from the market reality that damage history is important.

 

While there are no hard guidelines to quantify damage history, ultimately you have to ask yourself how much you will be willing to discount your selling price for that damage history when that time comes.

[yvesg]

I would assume that if the damage is very recent that the seller's asking price would already include some cuts right?

Yves

[fantom]

So, recent well documented skin damage only in several places, on a plane you like, that flies great, whose repairs you watched happen, and who's price you've already worked out knowing it had damage history.

 

Now you're considering coming back with a revised offer of 20% less?

 

I hope you don't have your heart set on this plane, or that the current owner is a friend, because I'm thinking you may lose both.

[John Pleisse]

3-8's I am not seeing what type a/c this is. Is it a long body Mooney? If so and it had a any kind of tail strike, I'd pass.

[triple8s]

The worst part would be selling my "C" I think I'd cry.

[thinwing]

Simple answer 5 to 10% depending on overall condition and any other issues...or zero if this bird had it all...good engine time/good avionics/paint interior /good maintance/no corrosion/nice glass..than the skin repairs are not an issue at all..my 2 cents

[OR75]

After damage, if the repairs have been done correctly and the plane test flown a few hundred hours ... the plane should have more value !. 

 

I like new parts and newer sheet metal

[thinwing]

Yeah..that part of the airplane is new!!

[carusoam]

If they told you it had damage and the price. It has already been discounted.

If they told you the price, then you found the repaired damage without them telling you, now you have something to bargain with.

What are other planes without damage going for?

I would expect a pristine plane will sell for some small amount higher than a perfectly repaired one.

But 30% for a perfect repair?

Or is this the third coming of the ugly duckling from TN, the M20 Mariner? Even with a 30% discount you still don't want it.

Be cautious of a deal that is too good.

Best regards,

-a-