Mooney 231 - Which oil do you like?

[FlyWalt]

Well it is time to buy oil for the 50 hour oil change and summer is right around the corner. This is my first year owning a high time TSIO-360 and the previous owner provided plenty of AeroShell 15W-50. But my local AI states that he likes AeroShell 100 for our high temperature climate ( Florida ).

 

What say you??? Opinions are welcome.

[aaronk25]

100w and 5% cam guard. That's the best route.

[FlyWalt]

Are you saying 100 Weight? As in SAE 100 or AeroShell 100

[231flyer]

I have used Aeroshell 15w50 for over 20 years in my 231.  Although I live in TX, I fly to the CO mountains quite a bit and the 15w50 is better suited to the cooler mornings at 8200FT.  The last I checked, CamGuard was not approved for our Turbo....it may be so now. 

[Bob_Belville]

I'm sure that's straight 50 weight = Aeroshell 100. (I run it year round in NC in my IO360. But I have an engine heater and keep the whole engine compartment @ 80F or so. I would not want to start the engine in the winter w/o the heat.)

[FlyWalt]

And this 231 came from Northwest Texas. It flew the same areas that you are speaking of. I am thinking that the Florida summer weather is going to call for a thicker oil with a turbo.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Phillips XC 20/50 plus Camguard.

[aaronk25]

Correction aeroshell 100 = 50w plus cam guard. Brain wasn't awake yet. I firmly believe this is your best choice. The straight 50w does a better job of cleaning the engine than the semi synthetic does, stays on parts longer after shut down too.

I think once we get a fuel that doesn't have lead in it synthetic oil will make more sense. However even without lead the large tolerances in our air cooled motors still allow for alot more combustion blow by, so we may always have a need for non-syn oil.

Syn oil isn't good at "carrying" or cleaning a engine. Slippery stuff but not the best for our dirty engines.

I go with cam guard because it reportedly has the best additive package, where the oil mfg really can't offer much because of the expense that the additives add.

I live in MN and run 50w all year long, but I always preheat 24/7, so the engine thinks its summer all year long. The stuff in 20w 50w or 15w50 that makes the oil change with different temps dilutes some of the lubricative qualities so that's why I run straight 50w. Not sure how much though.

[BigTex]

Phillips XC 20/50 plus Camguard.

+1

[231flyer]

From the CamGuard web site.   CamGuard – The 5% Solution

* Turbocharged engine acceptance pending

[aaronk25]

From the CamGuard web site. CamGuard – The 5% Solution

* Turbocharged engine acceptance pending

There goes our government getting in the way again.

[231flyer]

In this case the issue may lie with the engine manufacturers rather than the FAA.  Use of unapproved lubricants and fuels may negate warranties and in extreme cases the airworthiness.  FYI: Blackstone labs quote:

""Many people have very strong loyalties to certain brands of oil. They'll swear by their favorite brand and assure you that anything else is bound to ruin your engine. But we're here to dispel that myth. After nearly 20 years of testing oils from gasoline and diesel engines, aircraft engines, and industrial machines, we have discovered an interesting fact: it doesn't really matter what brand of oil you use. 
But wait! Before you dismiss us as heretical, listen to what we do recommend. We always suggest using an oil grade recommended for your engine by the manufacturer and a brand that fits your budget. The grade of oil is much more important to performance than the brand of oil.
We performed an in-house test, comparing the wear produced by Lycoming IO-360 engines on three major brands of aircraft oils. We wondered if one brand of oil would produce significantly more or less wear in an engine than another. What we found was, the range of metals produced by the oils differed by only 4 ppm. How significant is that? You could have 4 ppm of a metal in your eye and not even know it.""

[231flyer]

Flywalt,

My original TSIO 360(GB) started collecting sludge after 1600 hrs.  I changed my oil change frequency to every 35 hrs and the situation improved considerably.  The engine was rebuilt by Continental at 1725 hrs (upgraded to LB) and I have stayed with the 35 hr oil change interval.  Sludge build-up is more prevalent in high time engines (mostly due to blow-by and poor scavenging) so more frequent oil changes help manage the situation all else being equal (compressions better than 70/80 etc). Mineral oils are better at scavenging than synthetics but AeroShell 15w50 is a semi-synthetic so it does fine.  Continental cams are less prone to corrosion than Lycoming (I also own a Malibu Mirage) due to the location given average usage.  The best way to keep your engine healthy is to fly every week and change your oil every 35 hrs.  Watch the temp and MP limits.....our engines need more TLC than newer versions but still remain very efficient.  I get 170K TAS at 11 gph (11k FT) and compressions are 76/80 or better. Enjoy your plane, I still prefer my 231 for solo XC flights.

[chrisk]

I use Aero Shell 100 plus. Too early to tell if it is better/worse than anything else.

[jlunseth]

+2 on the Phillips. 

[bd32322]

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/oil_myths_debunked_197096-1.html

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/answers_about_oil_195194-1.html

In the end, just fly often, preheat in the cold and change often

[PTK]

15W50 is a superb multigrade from the leader in aviation lubricants. I use it year round changing it q 35 hours with excellent results. Regular oil changes is key with any grade oil you choose. Also I see no good reason to risk and contaminate your engine with any oil additives, especially ones not even approved! (Not that the oxymoron "approved additive" has any significant meaning.)

[jetdriven]

15W50 is expensive, and is half synthetic. Great in an automobile (I ran 33K on a synthetic oil change once, Blackstone said it was still good).  However, synthetic oil cannot suspend and carry away lead, so it deposits itself in your ring grooves and everywhere else in the engine as sludge. 

 

Mobil introduced AV1 which was a full synthetic oil for piston aviaton engines. It wasnt long after that operators were tearing down 300 hour engines that were sludged up and shot to hell. They paid millions in settlements and withdrew that oil. Now if synthetic is so good, then what happened here?

[FlyWalt]

As an Amsoil dealer for the past 7 years I have a strong affinity to synthetics. It was very frustrating to read about the issues that aircraft engines have with these oils. I have watched my gas mileage increase and operating temps decrease on my cars when converted over.

 

As to the aircraft I think I am going to go with AeroShell 100 Plus.

 

Thank you to everyone who has contributed here. Much obliged. :-)

[bd32322]

15W50 is expensive, and is half synthetic. Great in an automobile (I ran 33K on a synthetic oil change once, Blackstone said it was still good). However, synthetic oil cannot suspend and carry away lead, so it deposits itself in your ring grooves and everywhere else in the engine as sludge.

Mobil introduced AV1 which was a full synthetic oil for piston aviaton engines. It wasnt long after that operators were tearing down 300 hour engines that were sludged up and shot to hell. They paid millions in settlements and withdrew that oil. Now if synthetic is so good, then what happened here?

Well the aviation oils on the market are semi-synthetic and your example is a fully synthetic product. Doesnt mean the problem with synthetics translates to the semi synths.

In the links I pasted above, all 3 recommend the multi-viscosity oils (shell, phillips, exxon). But then again they would because they are priced higher Avweb or maybe aviation consumers testing showed significant corrosion resistance of the multi-vis oils with their built-in additive package (in link I pasted above)

[M20Kid]

For what it's worth, I have a 231 in Phoenix and I run Aeroshell 100W year round.  My Mooney MSC was speculating that the additive in the multiviscosity Aeroshell oils was contributing to a higher failure rate on the coupler for the alternator on the TSIO-360 engine.  I have no proof one way or the other but I prefer to error on the side of caution.

[PTK]

The prevention of lead oxide deposits is not a function of oil but of the ethylene dibromide in avgas and CHT's. Proper temp management, from start up to shutdown, by the human in the left seat. Some blowby is inevitable in our air cooled engines, but by applying proper technique and changing oil frequently we can mitigate it. Oil can't do this alone . We play a huge role.

http://www.shell.com/global/products-services/solutions-for-businesses/aviation/aeroshell/knowledge-centre/technical-talk/techart18-30071600.html

[Marauder]

I love the way FlyWalt tried to end this thread. I think he figured out he just stuck a stick in the proverbial oil beehive and the CamGuard bees will soon be on the loose. Oil in GA is a never ending topic. Other than Blackstone's comment on the matter, I would love to see a truly comprehensive analysis of the data supporting type/brand of oil and it's impact on TBO.

[jlunseth]

I read somewhere that the primary advantage of synths is the ability to not break down under extended service, which is not a factor in our engines because we change oil frequently.  Might as well just use a good regular oil of the correct weight for the aircraft and season.  So that is why I use Phillips.

[FlyWalt]

I love the way FlyWalt tried to end this thread. I think he figured out he just stuck a stick in the proverbial oil beehive and the CamGuard bees will soon be on the loose. Oil in GA is a never ending topic. 

 

The next topic is going to be on oil filters :-)