huntsville to provo (kpvu) in a J?

[Jamie]

I know nothing about mountain flying, so to save some time let's assume I'm smart enough to get appropriate training, yada yada.

 

Can an M20J go anywhere interesting west of the rockies? A friend is moving to Provo, Utah. Sounds like a great excuse for a long x-country.  Assuming the pilot is capable, is the plane? Can you go pretty much direct or do you have to pick your way through valleys?

 

 

[gjkirsch]

^{Looks like almost 1200NM with the highest enroute altitude of about 14000 feet.  Winds are typically against the route.  The plane will climb high enough but I do not think you can carry enough fuel to go non stop.  Certainly with a stop or two and don't forget the oxygen.}

[M016576]

Yes. Pretty much direct, although you'll need fuel, maybe O2 depending on the route. J's a very versatile aircraft!

[aaronk25]

I flew at 17000 in my j recently and with me 220 and overnight bag and full fuel it was still climbing 300fpm at 17000....ran 155kts at 2700 rpm 80rop, YMMV.

[TTaylor]

I just flew Nashville to Logan (100 sm north of Provo) during the last week of December in my F. Will be about 9 to 11 hours depending on the headwinds. No need for O2 and you will likely fly lower to avoid the stronger winds depending on the time of year. Return home higher might help the speed.

I flew the KS/OK boarder and crossed over the lower passes just east of Durango. Fuel near Durango and then follow the airports (Cortez, Monticello, Moab, Price) and through the last pass to Provo. Send me a PM if you have questions when you get ready and I can talk you through the route from the Rockies west.

It is a nice flight and if you have never been west you will love it.

[Jamie]

^{Looks like almost 1200NM with the highest enroute altitude of about 14000 feet.  Winds are typically against the route.  The plane will climb high enough but I do not think you can carry enough fuel to go non stop.  Certainly with a stop or two and don't forget the oxygen.}

Interesting. That's about what I eyeballed it at (well, skyvector.com, and adding 3000ft to the highest terrain along a likely route). But I figured... "naaa, can't be that easy". And wouldn't be in a 172. But from what you guys are saying, this isn't a big deal in a Mooney.

 

 

Yes. Pretty much direct, although you'll need fuel, maybe O2 depending on the route. J's a very versatile aircraft!

So the attached page from my POH isn't wrong then. I saw that diagram and had to look twice. Me not believing the chart is mostly what prompted this post. I'd run up against my own limitations (don't have an instrument rating yet, so have to stay below 18k MSL) before I hit the plane's.

 

 

I flew at 17000 in my j recently and with me 220 and overnight bag and full fuel it was still climbing 300fpm at 17000....ran 155kts at 2700 rpm 80rop, YMMV.

That actually matches the chart pretty well. I've heard engine cooling can be a problem at higher altitudes due to decreased air density. Any problems?

 

 

I flew the KS/OK boarder and crossed over the lower passes just east of Durango. Fuel near Durango and then follow the airports (Cortez, Monticello, Moab, Price) and through the last pass to Provo. Send me a PM if you have questions when you get ready and I can talk you through the route from the Rockies west.

It is a nice flight and if you have never been west you will love it.

Will do. Thanks. Any recommendations for a mountain flying course?

[231Pilot]

If you have done no mountain flying, try to arrange for some mountain instruction on the east side of the Rockies, and try to time things so you cross in the AM rather than in the afternoon.  I have crossed in the morning, mid-day and afternoon, and the morning was certainly the more comfortable.  As the mountains warm up, you will get tossed around a bit...be safe and get some supplemental O2 in the event you want more air between you and the earth....and follow the airways.

[Oscar Avalle]

I fly my "C" around 14 to 15k most of the time... and she does pretty well, all things considered. Just be careful with DA and the time of the day you fly. 

[FloridaMan]

I will also second the time of day thing. After my experience crossing New Mexico, I would spend the night somewhere and leave EARLY for the trek across the mountains. And by early, I'd want to be rolling down the runway no later than when there's a hint of sun about to rise. Keep your seatbelt on tight. You never know when you might catch a wave. 

[aaronk25]

As far as engine cooling goes, I had the cowl flap adjustment screws completly closed flush with the cowl and the hottest head was 375 and if I planned to fly at that altitude often I would have adjusted the cowl flaps to remain open 1/4-1/2 inch when in the fully closed position. 375 is ok but would rather see 350.

Also runnnng 80 rop is about tge hottest spot a engine can be run and I normally always run LOP but at that altitude I needed all the HP I could make so I put the mix knob in the position that yielded the fastest speed and left it. I think it was 8.2gph too.

These are amazing aircraft to be able to still go to 17k to take advantage of winds aloft.

Dallas to Rochester mn was 3.5 hours 225kts over ground

[N201MKTurbo]

I flew 2500 hours out of Denver in 8 years in my F. I went all over the Rockies almost every day. Your J will take you anywhere you want to go.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

For a Mountain Flying course you might want to check with Independence Aviation, based at Denver Centennial (KAPA). Their website is www.ia-kapa.com/. I've not taken the course, which is described on their website, but I'm familiar with their instructors and they're all quite good.

[AndyFromCB]

another thing to consider is how quickly airspeed bleeds of on landing in high density situations. If you're a "chop the power" over the numbers kind of guy, you might be very unpleasantly surprised when the bottom falls out from underneath so I'd recommend some practice with slowly twisting the power out and not chopping the throttle until already in flare. When flying in the midwest, I'm generally a chop and drop kind of flyer but I have noticed that the technique does not work very well at high density altitudes. 

 

I also concur with doing all your flying early in the morning. The turbulence can become very unpleasant especially as the surface winds pick up. I landed in Denver few weeks ago with surface winds at 30knots and the last half hour of flight as Denver kept on dropping us lower and lower was one of the most unpleasant flights I have ever been on.

 

Another thing to consider is the convergence of Vx and Vy if you trying to make maximum performance climbs.

[RJBrown]

A direct route takes you just a few miles south of Cenntennial where I am based. I fly to Utah often. I cross the mountains between KBJC and RLG vor. Corona pass is the lowest spot to cross between Denver and Provo and is within gliding distance of KBJC. I fly the straight line: BJC, RLG, EKR, MTY, PVU. Victor 200. On this route you legally don't need oxygen, though I always carry it.

 

 The route you choose would depend on the number of stops you plan. If you divide into 3 legs of about 400 miles landing at APA to go under around the DEN class B would be a good place. The self serve at the north runup area is a cheap as gas gets in the area. If you choose to fly 2- 600 mile legs Hays KS would allow you time to top the class B in DEN at 12,000.

[Jamie]

 If you're a "chop the power" over the numbers kind of guy, you might be very unpleasantly surprised when the bottom falls out from underneath

I am, but only because I have so little Mooney time to date. I know from what little Arrow time I have that flying with some power on with a flatter approach is the preferred method. Trying to get used to that in the Mooney.

Is there any way to practice for the higher density altitude down here (hsv elev 629MSL)?

[Jamie]

Guys, again, thanks to everyone for the info. I hope to have some interesting pics to post later this summer.

[M016576]

I am, but only because I have so little Mooney time to date. I know from what little Arrow time I have that flying with some power on with a flatter approach is the preferred method. Trying to get used to that in the Mooney.Is there any way to practice for the higher density altitude down here (hsv elev 629MSL)?

Nope, you just have to go out and do it! Also note that your roll out will be significantly longer as well...

[jlunseth]

One of the things they will teach you in a mountain flying course is to fly valleys and VFR.  You fly valleys so you have a place to put down in the event of an engine out.  I don't always follow these rules, but that is what they teach.  I am able to go high enough that I have some room to make a decision where to go in the event of an engine out.

 

The advice to always fly airways is good advice.  The established airways intersect the mountains where the MEA is relatively low.  On the east side of the Rockies, which is where I have flown, they often intersect the ridges on a northeast/southwest diagonal and not straight across.  If you try to cut straight across you may encounter the high peaks and you may also encounter strong winds.  Strong tailwinds can be just as bad or worse that strong headwinds, because they may push you into the peaks faster than you can climb to get over them.