Garmin GDL-88 Pirep

[Marauder]

Hmm, interesting observation. I'm not seeing radar for sure, nor metars or TAFs. I assume the metars and TAFs will appear in some format like my Garmin 496, with icons appearing on the screen indicating availability of the data if i scroll to that spot? Thanks for help.

Exactly and you're welcome.

[bssaunder@gmail.com]

New update from Dick Murray at Murray Avionics, KSCH: during set-up of the GDL-88, the 530-W offers two options: set up GDL-88 or set it up with weather. Needless to say, it was set up without weather, and a simple switch change in the 530-W should solve the problem. More data to follow.

[Bob_Belville]

So if I install the GDL-88 with it's own internal GPS to comply with the mandate:

Will most traffic then begin show in Foreflight via the Stratus 2?

(I am getting METARs, TAFs and RADAR now on Foreflight)

(No GPS, 2 KX155s, KT-76)

If so, What traffic will ADS-B show ... or not show?

Would the GDL-88 have an "out" to give GPS to a 406 ELT?

I have a GTN750 and a GDL 88. From what I can see, the 88 is only compartable with GTN and GNS WAAS... BICBW,,,

 

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/digital/in-the-air/avionics-safety/weather-solutions/gdl-88-series/prod63471.html

[tascher]

So if I install the GDL-88 with it's own internal GPS to comply with the mandate:

Will most traffic then begin show in Foreflight via the Stratus 2?

(I am getting METARs, TAFs and RADAR now on Foreflight)

(No GPS, 2 KX155s, KT-76)

If so, What traffic will ADS-B show ... or not show?

Would the GDL-88 have an "out" to give GPS to a 406 ELT?

I have a GTN750 and a GDL 88. From what I can see, the 88 is only compartable with GTN and GNS WAAS... BICBW,,,

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/digital/in-the-air/avionics-safety/weather-solutions/gdl-88-series/prod63471.html

daver328,I'd believe Bob Belville is spot on for current GDL88 direct display options. In fact, the GDL88 will not display on G500/600 systems until a software release schedule for later this year (and may never directly display on Garmin's competitors' screens)For indirect display options, a GDL88WAAS / Foreflight / Stratus 2 set up should work well. If you are within the service coverage of an ADS-B ground station, the GDL88 broadcast will trigger the ground station to broadcast the traffic picture. Your Stratus box should receive that picture and post it to Foreflight. The caveats should be the same as if you had installed a GDL88 with a GTN750; the ground stations can't rebroadcast targets that they can't see. If a target is too low or out of range, or simply isn't squawking, there won't be anything for the ground station to show you. With or without the Stratus box, the GDL88 should give you traffic position call-outs if you tie it into your audio; if the GDL88 can see it and its close enough to matter, you should be able to hear about it.I do not know the answer to your last question. I did a search for "406" in the GDL88 Pilots Guide, but could not find a reference to the box providing position data to an ELT. You'll have to ask your avionics shop about that. A cheap way to test all of the above (minus the 406 question) is to fly with your Stratus and Foreflight in an area with current charted ADS-B ground station coverage and a high probability of an equipped aircraft being in the neighborhood to trigger the traffic broadcast. If you try it - or you're already in an area that fits that description - and you never see any traffic on your ipad, it might be worth checking your Foreflight display settings. You should be able to see the same traffic picture as the aircraft that triggered the broadcast. Adding a GDL88 means that you'll always be that triggering aircraft. Without an ADS-B out source like a GDL88 or an ES transponder, you could be surrounded by other non-equipped aircraft, fly directly overhead an ADS-B tower, and see nothing.

[tascher]

David,

You are absolutely right. Foreflight makes the same point in their posting about Stratus and traffic service. They focus on transponders for compliance, but the GDL88 also complies (and the WAAS version allows you to avoid buying the WAAS GPS needed to bring a mode S transponder up to the ADS-B "ES" spec):

http://www.foreflight.com/stratus

"With certified ADS-B out options now available for aircraft, pilots can equip with an “out” transponder and get a very useful traffic picture. Without this “out” equipment, however, pertinent traffic is rarely visible since ADS-B towers remain silent until contacted by an aircraft equipped with ADS-B “out” capability."

Regards,

Tom

[wishboneash]

Slightly off topic. When ATC announces traffic and you see it on the GPS display/iPad (through the GDL-88/GTX330-ES) but not visually what the heck do you say? It is not TCAS since it doesn't have all the capability of true TCAS, but what do we call this? TIS-B? That is not very easy to say.

 

"I have the traffic". On what?? 

[jetdriven]

"looking for traffic"

[Bob_Belville]

"looking for traffic"

If the voice traffic is light have added something like, "but my magic box confirms."

[BigTex]

And when that nice English lady whispers in my ear "Traffic" my first words generally isn't "Looking for Traffic." 

[wishboneash]

"looking for traffic"

 

Actually I do say that, but would also like to tell ATC I know where the traffic is and therefore can take evasive action if needed. Perhaps reduce his/her workload. I guess "I got him on the fish-finder" is not done! Magic box, traffic box, traffic display all sound reasonable alternatives.

[bssaunder@gmail.com]

Further clarification on Aspen/GDL88/530W issue-

 

My avionics mechanic got the GDL88 to report weather to the 530 by flipping a switch in the 530 so it receives weather and traffic instead of just traffic. Weather is pretty primitive compared to the XM weather displayed on the 496- just radar and METAR flags, but you can't query the flags by putting a pointer over them like you can on the 496. I'm not cancelling my XM subscription any time soon.

 

It seems not all the TRACONs have the ADS-B monitoring switched on, so they still rely mostly on radar, at least in the Northeast.

 

The autofill to my Aspen and 496 stopped working after the install. Turns out the lead from the 530 to the GDL88 is the one previously used for autofill. Now I have a second lead from the 530 to the Aspen and to the 496, so I'm able to autofill again. 

 

My overall assesment is that the $8800.00 I spent on the GDL88 install (!!!!) is yielding a pretty low return on investment so far, but at least I'm compliant with the 2020 mandate.

[Marauder]

Further clarification on Aspen/GDL88/530W issue-

My avionics mechanic got the GDL88 to report weather to the 530 by flipping a switch in the 530 so it receives weather and traffic instead of just traffic. Weather is pretty primitive compared to the XM weather displayed on the 496- just radar and METAR flags, but you can't query the flags by putting a pointer over them like you can on the 496. I'm not cancelling my XM subscription any time soon.

It seems not all the TRACONs have the ADS-B monitoring switched on, so they still rely mostly on radar, at least in the Northeast.

The autofill to my Aspen and 496 stopped working after the install. Turns out the lead from the 530 to the GDL88 is the one previously used for autofill. Now I have a second lead from the 530 to the Aspen and to the 496, so I'm able to autofill again.

My overall assesment is that the $8800.00 I spent on the GDL88 install (!!!!) is yielding a pretty low return on investment so far, but at least I'm compliant with the 2020 mandate.

I was under the impression that the GDL-88 does not provide any data to the Aspen products. What is "autofilling" on your Aspen?

Sent using Tapatalk

[PTK]

Further clarification on Aspen/GDL88/530W issue-

 

...My overall assesment is that the $8800.00 I spent on the GDL88 install (!!!!)...

Does this mean that the GTNs will be 6500$ and 7500$?  

 

Seriously why that much? I was quoted mid 4's for the standard one and thought it was too much!

[bssaunder@gmail.com]

That is true.

 

The autofill prior to this install just allowed the 530W to send the next way-point to the 496 and to the Aspen PFD1000.

 

After installing the GDL 88, that capability was lost, as the lead from the 530W that fed data to the 2 units was used for the GDL 88 instead.

 

The avionics installer said it was a simple matter to add a new lead from the 530W to replace the one he had cannibalized for the GDL 88, so the Aspen and the 496 both know the next way-point again.

 

RS

[bssaunder@gmail.com]

Response to PTK- The install was done at KSCH by Murray avionics. It was the first one he had done, and it required taking the headliner apart as the GDL 88 lives in the tailcone. I suspect as he does more of them, he will be more efficient, and the cost of install there will fall.

[PTK]

Response to PTK- The install was done at KSCH by Murray avionics. It was the first one he had done, and it required taking the headliner apart as the GDL 88 lives in the tailcone. I suspect as he does more of them, he will be more efficient, and the cost of install there will fall.

Presumably he took the headliner apart to run the wires. Any reason why not run them behind the pilot side panels like all the rest?

Sounds like you paid him to learn!

[Marauder]

That is true.

The autofill prior to this install just allowed the 530W to send the next way-point to the 496 and to the Aspen PFD1000.

After installing the GDL 88, that capability was lost, as the lead from the 530W that fed data to the 2 units was used for the GDL 88 instead.

The avionics installer said it was a simple matter to add a new lead from the 530W to replace the one he had cannibalized for the GDL 88, so the Aspen and the 496 both know the next way-point again.

RS

I have a GTN 650 with a dual Aspen setup. I don't have the GDL-88. In my installation, the 650 feeds the entire flight plan to the Aspen. If I zoom out in either the PFD or MFD I see the entire flight planned route. The magneta line runs from the current plane location to the next waypoint. I'm not sure why only the next waypoint is known in your installation.

My hesitation on installing the GDL-88 was that the "IN" portion would only be displayed on the 650. Nothing would be shown on the Aspens. I believe at this point, until their own software is updated, the G500/600 also does not display ADS-B information.

So -- unless something has changed, you are not seeing any weather on your Aspen and the METAR/TAF flags are only present on your 530. Is that correct?

[frcabot]

Actually I do say that, but would also like to tell ATC I know where the traffic is and therefore can take evasive action if needed. Perhaps reduce his/her workload. I guess "I got him on the fish-finder" is not done! Magic box, traffic box, traffic display all sound reasonable alternatives.

None of the above. AIM specifically says otherwise. It's "looking for traffic" or "negative contact" until traffic is visually acquired. Doesn't matter if you have him on TCAS, ADS-B, or whatever. The only thing that matters is visual acquisition.

[frcabot]

http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/186249-1.html?redirected=1

 

http://www.pilotworkshop.com/tips/pilot_atc_response.htm

 

 

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0404.html#aim0404.html.9

Also See AIM 4-4-17:

d. Presently, no air traffic services or handling is predicated on the availability of an ADS-B cockpit display. A “traffic-in-sight” reply to ATC must be based on seeing an aircraft out-the-window, NOT on the cockpit display.

[frcabot]

http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=3922

 

Seeing another aircraft on TCAS or other traffic-in-the-cockpit device (aka, the fishfinder) does NOT constitute visually identifying the other aircraft. Advising the controller that you’ve, “got ‘em on the fishfinder,” “the box,” or TCAS is wasted airtime as far as ATC is concerned. There are only two options: either you have the other aircraft visually or not. ATC will then respond accordingly.

[jrp]

Folks,   I've researched this topic a fair bit and come to the conclusion that the most economically way to go for is panel mount (certified) ADSB IN and portable for ADSB OUT.

This gets you 2020 compliant (stick) AND gives you access to ADSB OUT Weather and Traffic (carrots).   Here's a summary of the capabilities, which is surprisingly hard to find:

 

    ADS-B OUT   ADS-B IN Location Unit 1090MHz ES UAT 978MHz TIS-A 1090 TIS-B UAT978 TIS-B FIS-B Wx     >18K' <18K'         Portable GDL 39 No No No Yes Yes Yes Panel GTX 330 ES Yes Yes Yes No No No Panel GDL 88 No Yes No Yes Yes Yes

[frcabot]

Well you've got it exactly backwards. You need certified ADS-B OUT. The FAA doesn't care whether you have ADS-B in.

[Oscar Avalle]

I am considering installing a GDL 88, how much did you guys pay for the installation?

[Bob_Belville]

I am considering installing a GDL 88, how much did you guys pay for the installation?

December 2012: $3795 + $60 CB, cable, & misc supplies + 7 man hours (= $525) install. (Work was done while a lot of other panel work resulting in savings in install time.

[ArtVandelay]

I am considering installing a GDL 88, how much did you guys pay for the installation?

If you use an Ipad and garmin pilot, I would wait, they are bound to add bluetooth to the 88 soon.

If you don't use garmin pilot, then you might want to look at http://www.freeflightsystems.com/products/ads-b/978, it already has ipad interface.