Fair price for M20F

[Corvus]

Hey guys I am new here,

To cut to the chase I am looking at a 74 M20F and I want to know what you guys thought would be a fair price for the aircraft.

The aircraft in question is well maintained(minor work done by local A&P, mooney specific maintenance has been done at Top Gun) and frequently flown.

3100TT 1100 SMOH

Paint and interior maybe 2 years old? 9/10 condition both are nicely done

Garmin GNS 430 IFR

KX155

I think the only exterior mod in the cowl closure.

Operational PC system.

Plane is located at my local field on the west coast.

[Hank]

There's an evaluation here for C, E, F & J, I think written by Jimmy Garrison at All American Aircraft:

 

http://www.themooneyflyer.com/

 

Along with lots of other good information.

[gregwatts]

"Fair price" is a subjective opinion. Who did the engine OH and when? Are all the log books available? Has the plane ever been out of annual.....how long? Is there any damage history? Have the tanks been resealed? How many hours on the prop? When was it last overhauled....by who? Has the airplane been flown continuously or are there periods of inactivity?

 

It is a buyers market....that is to your advantage. You have to do your homework....and decide "how much is it worth to me".

 

 

 

 

My opinion only!

[John Pleisse]

Hey Corvus....a 75 F is a great plane. In addition to Fantom and Greg Watts postings, I would add that you stay focused on the big ticket items: engine, tanks, prop, steel tubing (AD 208A/B), glass, windscreen, corrosion and damage history. A major repair to any of these would be 20-50% of your acquisition cost, depending. I spent 8 months looking for the right Mooney and still could have done better. But in the end, after many travels, flunked pre buys and withdrawn deposits, I bought a Mooney at my home field.

[TWinter]

I have a 73 E (there were no 74Es made).I bought mine w/ close to same hours you mention. No Garmin 430 in mine when I bought it. Exterior was good/fair (7 on a 10 scale), interior very good cloth redone within the last 10 yrs. The deal included him delivering with fresh annual. I have very complete comprehensive logs. Just guessing, but I would think mid to low 50K with fresh annual. Hard to tell without pics and more details, but as all have said..it is a buyers market. Over a year period I found old posts where mine was listed high 70s. To say the least I saved over 20K from his prior listings when I bought it a year later.

 

Just like all the rest of us Mooniacs I have redone the whole plane to suit me. I would not even want to add up what we've put into it..don't really care since I don't plan to sell her. I think with good history and complete logs, maybe low to  mid 50s.  Just my .02

[Marauder]

Since I own a 75F and I want to keep the prices up, I think it is worth $335k. Don't take a penny less!

[Corvus]

I posted knowing there is a degree of subjectivity to the matter and its obviously impossible to nail down an exact price, especially with the generic description I gave..

 

I greatly appreciate the input! The Mooney flyer site was a great suggestion.

Part of what I was looking for was what the current market state is with these aircraft. The valuation tool was a great reference. 

 

Perhaps I should have rephrased that question as...."what does a clean no surprises M20F with those time and that equipment roughly worth in todays market?" I am trying to generate a baseline and would negotiate from that based on condition and history. 

 

Do the valuation tools reflect the current market? or are they based more on a generic depreciation/appreciation scale? 

[TTaylor]

I just bought a 75 20F a few months ago. The AOPA has a good estimator on their site and the MooneyFlyer link above will also a good estimate. The MF estimate seemed high and the AOPA slightly low. I agree that a clean 20F is likely in the 50's unless there are major concerns or upgrades. Nice thing is it sounds like you are close to several good Mooney Service Centers for a prebuy if you get that far.

Finding a plane on your home airport can be several thousand saving so you can factor that into the value. The big ticket items are the ones to watch. A good prebuy should help with that. LASAR and Top Gun are both good shops. Bottom line is do you feel you can sell it for what you are going to pay, then it is the right price. Any major issue should be appropriately deducted because anyone you want to sell it to will.

All in all the 20F is a great plane.

[Corvus]

Thoughts on tanks that have not been resealed? As far as price negotiation?

[Marauder]

Thoughts on tanks that have not been resealed? As far as price negotiation?

Depends. Anyone who has done research on Mooneys will know to ask about the tanks. The type of sealant used in our age of Mooney did fail. My 75 started showing stringers of the sealant peeling off in 1992. Chances are someone has patched them your tanks over the years. If you and I were negotiating the sales price, I would insist on a reduction to cover the resealed or bladder option. Anywhere from half to the full cost of the replacement options. That said, when I bought my airplane in 1991, I didn't know much about the tanks. They were not leaking at the time and the mechanic who looked it over on the pre-buy never mentioned it. I got a year out of them before they began leaking.

[DaV8or]

A good prebuy should help with that. LASAR and Top Gun are both good shops.

When the time comes for the pre buy, go to LASAR. I have used both Top Gun and LASAR, but LASAR would be my choice here.

[Seth]

I owned a 1967 M20F.  I purchased it in 2008 pre-crash (market, not airplane) and sold it in 2011 just after purchasing my Missile.  It was a 4-10 year hold and ended up selling it in just over three years.  I put close to 500 hours on it and sold it for 3000 less than I bought it for.  It was in better mechanical shape when I sold it than when I bought it except the higher prop/airframe/engine time.  I probably could have made out even or above (not counting maintance and upgrades) but I sold very quickly to a friend of mine through word of mouth vs listing it on TAP/Controller/Barnstormers.  I did list it here as well.

 

I bought and sold it in the 50s.  Without pictures, and true exact information, we'd have to put a range.  My guess is from what you've described is $50,000 to $68,000 depending on engine/prop/airframe time, previous damage, equipment, paint, interior, and all sorts of other aspects regarding it's history.  I apologize for the large range, but if you PM the add to me, I won't buy it and give you my honest opinion and what my offer would be along with certain gotchas.

 

-Seth

[rbridges]

Depends. Anyone who has done research on Mooneys will know to ask about the tanks. The type of sealant used in our age of Mooney did fail. My 75 started showing stringers of the sealant peeling off in 1992. Chances are someone has patched them your tanks over the years. If you and I were negotiating the sales price, I would insist on a reduction to cover the resealed or bladder option. Anywhere from half to the full cost of the replacement options. That said, when I bought my airplane in 1991, I didn't know much about the tanks. They were not leaking at the time and the mechanic who looked it over on the pre-buy never mentioned it. I got a year out of them before they began leaking.

 

I knew to check.  They looked fine, but I got less than 6 months before blue streaks appeared.

[TonyPynes]

Tanks leaking on that age is a given at some point in the near future. You will want to check out not only the tank but the inboard and outboard sending units and the fuel selector switch. I bought my 70 M20F 1.5 years ago and have resealed tanks, and resealed sending units. If the interior smells like fuel, something is leaking...

FYI: Don't assume if they have been sealed once they are fixed forever. I was looking more intently at my old logs and found where my tanks were stripped and sealed by one of the Mooney specialist about 8 years ago and needed resealing last year. I am not pro or con on bladders and certainly dont want to start that discussion here but sealing - even by the best - will need to be redone at some point....just my experience.

Whatever plane you buy and whatever price you pay...add in 10-20% for the first year fixes. Could be more if you missed something. In my first year I have replaced battery, alternators, elect fuel pump, Vacuum pump, antennas, cable for antennas that wasn't replaced when upgrade happened, amp gauge fixed, MP gauge fixed, fuel tank gauge fixed, sending units replaced and sealed, leak in crankcase fixed, changed oil screen for oil filter, brakes, odd adjustments of switches, fuel cap seals, to name a few. Don't forget you will need an annual subscription for that 430 too.