speed brakes

[randypugh]

Anyone care to talk about your use of speed brakes? I understand decents and speed control but what about when the airplane is slow , landing, flair, crosswinds, ect... The flight manual says approved through entire flight envelope. How are you using them and what benifits.

[RobertoTohme]

I use them on all flight regimes...  to slow down to Va during cruise if strong turbulence is encountered, to descend in shorter distances, to set up final speed, and over the runway on the flare to assure no bounces...

[docket]

I use them to help me down until I get to gear speed.  I have landed with them out a couple of times but that is really not their true purpose.  I have found that speed control at final to the runway is best done with the throttle and careful flying. 

[231BB]

Speed brake effectiveness appears to diminish at higher angles of attack, and using them through out the flair perhaps requires only a little more back pressure on the yoke. Having them out for landing does give one yet one more thing to clean up in case of a balked approach, so I prefer to use them sparingly on final.

[Jeff_S]

I dream about them on my pre-MSE J but for the most part have realized I don't need them.

[rogerl]

I use the (manual lever activated) speed brakes usually only if I'm coming in a little hot or high (J model).  At landing they don't seem to do much - perhaps affected by the angle of attack as others have mentioned.  The gear are way more effective as a 'speed brake' on the J.

The other day I brought it in with no flaps but with speed brakes deployed as a winds experiment; worked a lot like a 15 degree flaps landing.

All in all, handy for 'poor planning' situations but I'm happy I didn't spring for multiple thousands to get them installed.  If you're considering, I'd go with manual if they're available - the pressure required to activate is a "two fingers" deal.  Lever is between the seats, slightly inconvenient to reach but not bad.  Not sure why they made electric or hydraulic ones at all.

[fantom]

Quote: Jeff_S

I dream about them on my pre-MSE J but for the most part have realized I don't need them.

[N201MKTurbo]

I have them on my 77 201 and they are nice to have. I flew a 67 F for 19 years before i got the 201 and never had a problem. I have had them deploy asymmetrically a few times which will get your attention, but you can roll it back level with one up.

[jlunseth]

I have them.  I plan my flight not to have to use them, if possible.  But have found myself overshooting the airport from a fast tailwind despite 50 n.m. of descent, so there are times they are needed.  Also, if ATC wants you to GET DOWN NOW, you can say ABLE - THE READINGS YOU WILL SEE FROM MY TRANSPONDER ARE REAL!  (Sometimes they check back to make sure you are not in a spin.)

[roundout]

They don't do much below about 90 knots. You can take off or go around with them deployed and barely notice any performance hit at all. Obviously, you would want to experiment with this under controlled circumstances at a suitable airport if you felt the urge to see this for yourself. 

I used to use them on every flight because of the novelty of having them. After I got a couple hundred hours in the airplane I started getting more satisfaction out of planning my descents and power management specifically to AVOID using them. I noticed that my flying improved when I started paying more close attention to the airplane in descents. Brakes are a nice option to have in your back pocket but shouldn't be used as a crutch. 

I have had what seems to be an unfair number deploy asymmetrically and subsequently require overhaul. It's not really a big deal unless you need the brakes and then can't use them as you planned. 

[Cruiser]

It sounds really cool in the FBO too. Hangar talk with some of the students and new pilots around.

"....... and so there I was high and fast, ATC wanted me at xxx, so I deployed the speed brakes and dropped like a rock, crossed xxx at xxx then the controller vectored me to final......."

I always admired the older pilots when I was taking lessons. I took every opportunity to listen in on their conversations. Most of the time I was ignored.

Roundout, it sounds like you are a great pilot and handle your Mooney well. (wishing I had speed brakes)

TomK

[roundout]

Quote: Cruiser

It sounds really cool in the FBO too. Hangar talk with some of the students and new pilots around.

 

[ovation0219]

I have them on my ovation. i use them almost everytime i land to slow to gear speed in the pattern and again on the flair. They also work great for decending with power to avoid shock cooling. They sounded cool when I flew a Turboarrow but I never could spend the money. Now that I have had 2 Ovations with them I would not want to fly without them. Especially in a Mooney as slick as it is and it needs help to go slow.

[Jvancecpa]

On a trip yesterday and after landing checked speed brake deployment. Right goes up and left does not. Worked on descent.  2008 Ovation2GX is airplane.  Any suggestions as to solution to problem?

Thanks

 

[pjsny78]

I use them from the moment i have to slow down to retract the gear all the way to landing. it seems to take some of the float out in ground effect.  we all know given the chance mooneys will float down an entire runway.

 

When I was shopping for my plane I did not think speed brakes would make any real difference on an aircraft that fly’s at 165knotts. It just happened that the plane I bought had them. I can honestly say it’s one of my favorite parts of the plane. They are great and can’t imagine not having them at this point. I am actually looking at buying a twin and was asking if there is way to get them installed on an aerostar.

Bottom line is that you will appreciate them greatly if you start using them.

[pjsny78]

 

[Jvancecpa]

I must have not made a clear post. One of my speed brakes went inop! The right deploys and the left doesnot. Any suggestions as to what I should possibly look at as to fixing the problem. I love the speed brakes and use them all the time. It's just one of the will not deploy. 

I am flying home tomorrow and will leave them stowed and just monitor my speed. But I am anal with regards of everything working properly on my plane and thought someone might have a suggestion as to a quick fix before I fly tomorrow.

Thanks

[johnggreen]

Speed brakes add an additional dimension of control and flexibility to my Bravo.  For speed control, it's like having no gear speed or flap extension speed.  They allow for a fast, efficient and smooth transition from cruise and descent speeds to approach.

I fly up the length of the Appalachian Valley regularly and have to deal with rather severe mountain waves especially in the winter and spring.  In an updraft, I would have to quite often pull power to keep the speeds below the yellow.  With speed brakes, just pop them out and lose 15 knots in seconds.  

Same for turbulence.  Descending from the higher altitudes where I fly the Bravo, I am often in and out of clouds that will have lifting turbulence.  You can keep your descent speed in the high green and popl out the brakes before going into the clouds so you don't go racking your head against the top of the cabin or exceed Vno.

IFR approaches are made even more manageable with the ability to drop 15 knots or 700' per minute with just the push of a button.  On a non-precision approach, when you need to descend to the next altitude, just push pop the brakes and you get 700' per minute.  Need to lose altitude in a procedure turn?  Same thing.

I've seen some really amateurish comments about them being a crutch.  Ridiculous!  They add significant capability and broaden the pilot's options.  

As for electric vs. manual.  Yea, I want to be in the soup, talking to Approach, trying to nail the glide scope, and reaching for another handle.

Jgreen

[pjsny78]

I must have not made a clear post. One of my speed brakes went inop! The right deploys and the left doesnot. Any suggestions as to what I should possibly look at as to fixing the problem. I love the speed brakes and use them all the time. It's just one of the will not deploy.

I am flying home tomorrow and will leave them stowed and just monitor my speed. But I am anal with regards of everything working properly on my plane and thought someone might have a suggestion as to a quick fix before I fly tomorrow.

Thanks

 

 

Overhaul may be due. i was looking in my log books and the previous owner had to get myne overhauled.

 

[johnggreen]

Jvancecpa,

Hello neighbor.

My right speed brake failed to deploy on a cross country a couple of weeks ago.  I had to go to Georgia a couple of days later and it decided to work, then on the way home, changed its mind.

The Bravo was going to the shop to have the prop overhauled and the alternators replaced so I just added that to the list.  Kevin, (Rushing Aviation in Marks) pulled both brakes and the control box and sent them to the factory.  They said that there was almost no way to guess what could be wrong without sending the whole system.  They said that it would be a 7 work day turn around and would probably cost $400 to $700.  Kevin told me he could make plates to go over the holes if I needed the airplane sooner, but right now I don't have any trips planned.

If you want to call Kevin his cell is662-444-4736 or me 662-307-0496.

Jgreen

Grenada

[DaV8or]

Quote: Jvancecpa

I must have not made a clear post. One of my speed brakes went inop! The right deploys and the left doesnot. Any suggestions as to what I should possibly look at as to fixing the problem. I love the speed brakes and use them all the time. It's just one of the will not deploy.

[Jvancecpa]

Thanks John.

Is that a good place for service? Do you get all your Bravo work done there?  I need a good, fairly local shop to keep my bird healthy.  As you know, Mooneys seem to be a rare breed.

I might get to the airport tomorrow and they both might pop up. Who knows! 

Thats again for the info. You head to Tupelo sometime let me know and we'll have some coffee.

 

Jud

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Jvancecpa

Thanks John.

Is that a good place for service? Do you get all your Bravo work done there?  I need a good, fairly local shop to keep my bird healthy.  As you know, Mooneys seem to be a rare breed.

[M016576]

Quote: johnggreen

Speed brakes add an additional dimension of control and flexibility to my Bravo.  For speed control, it's like having no gear speed or flap extension speed.  They allow for a fast, efficient and smooth transition from cruise and descent speeds to approach.

I fly up the length of the Appalachian Valley regularly and have to deal with rather severe mountain waves especially in the winter and spring.  In an updraft, I would have to quite often pull power to keep the speeds below the yellow.  With speed brakes, just pop them out and lose 15 knots in seconds.  

Same for turbulence.  Descending from the higher altitudes where I fly the Bravo, I am often in and out of clouds that will have lifting turbulence.  You can keep your descent speed in the high green and popl out the brakes before going into the clouds so you don't go racking your head against the top of the cabin or exceed Vno.

IFR approaches are made even more manageable with the ability to drop 15 knots or 700' per minute with just the push of a button.  On a non-precision approach, when you need to descend to the next altitude, just push pop the brakes and you get 700' per minute.  Need to lose altitude in a procedure turn?  Same thing.

I've seen some really amateurish comments about them being a crutch.  Ridiculous!  They add significant capability and broaden the pilot's options.  

As for electric vs. manual.  Yea, I want to be in the soup, talking to Approach, trying to nail the glide scope, and reaching for another handle.

Jgreen

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: M016576

I wouldnt go out of my way (or wallet) to install them though.  Just my humble opinion.