Sad Tale of a IO-360 A3B6D. Be careful folks!

[robert7467]

I would also wrap yourself in bubble wrap (non-flammable TSO'd kind).

Really? I am being serious. I have wrecked several times in a dirtbike, and I know know for a fact, if I didn't have a helmet on, I would have died. Think about it, landing right above stall speed, having shoulder harness on, having full faced helmet on. Your chances of survival could be much greater. I am still a student pilot, and I don't know everything, but I do know this... I have been seeing a lot if planes going down lately, and a lot of fatalities could have been prevented with a helmet on.

[AndyFromCB]

I've always said that I wanted to die at 90 by the hands of a jealous husband.

I'll take that too, as long as it's not pulp fiction Zed's basement style ;-) Quick shotgun blast I'd take.

[sreid]

Really? I am being serious. I have wrecked several times in a dirtbike, and I know know for a fact, if I didn't have a helmet on, I would have died. Think about it, landing right above stall speed, having shoulder harness on, having full faced helmet on. Your chances of survival could be much greater. I am still a student pilot, and I don't know everything, but I do know this... I have been seeing a lot if planes going down lately, and a lot of fatalities could have been prevented with a helmet on.

I raced mx and hare scrambles for 15 years so am no stranger to helmets, highsides, lowsides, endos, loopouts, or any other way to fund orthopedic surgeons Turbo Porsches! Still, I can't see myself putting on a helmet to fly a mooney on a cross country! Maybe you need a different A & P! Anyway, we're in the USA so we all still have the freedom to make our own choices regarding personal safety and protective gear. If it makes you guys feel safer, then go for it! Just saying that it seems over the top to me personally! I don't personally feel like I need the same safety gear when taking my mooney on a personal flight as I do taking a CR250 over an 80 ft triple.

[BigTex]

Keep on laughing, but a smoke hood and helmet go a long way to dealing with two most common M20M emergencies. 3 M20M have gone done because of smoke in the cockpit and countless others would be alive if they had a helmet on both motorcycles or in the airplane. I was wearing a helmet when my Super D went down into the river, as I always do when I fly upside down, and trust me, my face, not already pretty to begin with would be in a lot worst of a shape if I wasn't. I credit wearing a helmet with staying conscious and not drowning in 12 inches of water when the plane flipped on touchdown.

Guess you could always keep a helmet in the back seat. That way if you have to make an off field landing, you'll likely have enough time to strap it on.

[robert7467]

That's what I was talking about. Keeping one handy, then if I have to make forced landing, put it on. It certainly wouldn't hurt. As far as the shape my plane is in, it has less than 100 hrs engine and prop, always hangared, and never put up dirty, but the plane was built by a human, and there is a possibility something could go wrong, and I feel that if something did go wrong, then there is nothing wrong with reaching in the back seat, and throwing on a helmet. I don't live in the bubble. I skydive, ride dirtbikes, and fly airplanes. I am not a pussy, but other than the plane breaking up, or nosediving, I am starting to see the benefit of a helmet from the accidents I have been watching. At least in an airplane, you know ahead of time in many instances, and you can have the oportunity to reach in the back sear and throw on a helmet.

[robert7467]

Think about it this way. The FAA says the you have a 30% chance if surviving with a shoulder belt, and that is pretty much to prevent your head from getting smashed up. I wonder what the statistics would show if you put a helmet on during a forced landing....something to think about.

[aviatoreb]

Think about it this way. The FAA says the you have a 30% chance if surviving with a shoulder belt, and that is pretty much to prevent your head from getting smashed up. I wonder what the statistics would show if you put a helmet on during a forced landing....something to think about.

No mention of airbags. That's something that seems realistic, not intrusive and very beneficial. Mooneys are supposedly on the short list for the STC for airbags. I wrote the company about a year ago to express my interest for the M20K and they said its coming "soon".

[flyboy0681]

Guess you could always keep a helmet in the back seat.

Sure wouldn't exude a whole lot of confidence for first time passengers.

[BigTex]

Tru dat... Guess that's not much different than taking someone up for some aerobatics and having them strap on a parachute and tell them you'll never need it.

[AcclaimML]

Acclaim has airbags. the slow mo pics of them in action makes me a believer. Folks dont complain about them.

[DaV8or]

No mention of airbags. That's something that seems realistic, not intrusive and very beneficial. Mooneys are supposedly on the short list for the STC for airbags. I wrote the company about a year ago to express my interest for the M20K and they said its coming "soon".

I was just catching up on the thread and thinking that this would be a perfect time for Richard to chime in about his seatbelt airbags. I think they are available for many Mooney models now I think. No vintage though. By the way, I met him at the AOPA summit where he was on the job, hawking his wares. As you might expect from the a fellow Mooniac, a nice guy!

Anyways, the belts are a little pricey... but look at the photos again!! If you're serious about carrying a motorcycle helmet with you, you owe it to yourself to check out the bag belts.

[M016576]

No mention of airbags. That's something that seems realistic, not intrusive and very beneficial. Mooneys are supposedly on the short list for the STC for airbags. I wrote the company about a year ago to express my interest for the M20K and they said its coming "soon".

"But, when will then be now???"

"Soon...."

[scottfromiowa]

The LAST thing I will be doing in the event of an Emergency is looking for a bloody helmet and trying to put it on properly. I will hopefully be FLYING the airplane...all the way down to an event that I and those I love (if aboard) can walk away from...or survive. This talk of reaching into the back seat and putting on a helmet strikes me as goofy, but whatever makes you guys happy.

[SkyPilot]

okay, talk to me in easy to understand words. You have two mags. Wouldn't you still have one to work with if the other failed? Doesn't the mag check at the preflight catch a failing mag? What are the odds that both give out in the same flight?

Some of the IO-360's in Mooney's have a "twin-pack" mag. Two mags, but only one driver. Completely crazy, defeats half the purpose. When I found this out I checked mine and found that I had two single mags (sigh of relief)

[SkyPilot]

I am looking at installing shoulder belts though. For sure.

[jetdriven]

Some of the IO-360's in Mooney's have a "twin-pack" mag. Two mags, but only one driver. Completely crazy, defeats half the purpose. When I found this out I checked mine and found that I had two single mags (sigh of relief)

Every M20J (until M20J Allegro 24-3374 and later) left the factory with a Lycoming IO-360-A3B6D engine, which has a Bendix D4LN-2021 or D4LN-3031 dual magneto. AFAIK the only way to get two separate magnetos is to convert the A3B6D engine to an A3B6D-C engine by installing the two-mag accessory case and other bits, or to install a genuine A3B6 engine. Neither option is cheap.

A3B6D on the left. A3B6 on the right.

[gregwatts]

I had to stick my 2 cents in on the helmet thing.............we are all a hell of lot liklier to be in a vehicle accident than we are to have a plane crash.......who drives around with a motorcycle helmet on? This was a tragedy....and we all have the luxury of be Monday morning quarterbacks. The best we can do as pilots is be prudent with our habits, skills, and maintenance.........but flying is a hell of a lot safer than driving.

My opinion only!

[aviatoreb]

I had to stick my 2 cents in on the helmet thing.............we are all a hell of lot liklier to be in a vehicle accident than we are to have a plane crash.......who drives around with a motorcycle helmet on? This was a tragedy....and we all have the luxury of be Monday morning quarterbacks. The best we can do as pilots is be prudent with our habits, skills, and maintenance.........but flying is a hell of a lot safer than driving.

My opinion only!

It is incorrect. I felt the need to pipe up since this is a common misconception. Yes, it is true that flying a scheduled carrier is many times safer than driving, when measured by either incidents per hour of exposure incidents per mile travelled. But flying GA is less safe than driving, but safer than driving a motorcycle, when measured the same way - statistically speaking and taking the population as a whole and not conditioning the probabilities on your specific pattern of behaviors and choices and so forth. The nice thing is you can modify your behavior and choices to effect the statistics, but we need face it, it is a risky behavior and with risks we must actively manage. By the way, paddling a canoe is statistically worse too, but lacks the public wow factor that causes people to think you are crazy for thinking about doing it.

[M20E-1964]

Okay I have a dumb question. I have a 64E model with the IO-360.

Does that version of the IP-360 have this crappy mag design?

[DaV8or]

Okay I have a dumb question. I have a 64E model with the IO-360.

Does that version of the IP-360 have this crappy mag design?

No. I think you have an IO-360 A1A like mine.

[gregwatts]

It is incorrect. I felt the need to pipe up since this is a common misconception. Yes, it is true that flying a scheduled carrier is many times safer than driving, when measured by either incidents per hour of exposure incidents per mile travelled. But flying GA is less safe than driving, but safer than driving a motorcycle, when measured the same way - statistically speaking and taking the population as a whole and not conditioning the probabilities on your specific pattern of behaviors and choices and so forth. The nice thing is you can modify your behavior and choices to effect the statistics, but we need face it, it is a risky behavior and with risks we must actively manage. By the way, paddling a canoe is statistically worse too, but lacks the public wow factor that causes people to think you are crazy for thinking about doing it.

Yea....canoeing scares the hell outta me! Especially without a helmet!

[SkyPilot]

That's funny, because I was thinking of buying my wife a helmet for the trip out to Niagara Falls last month. I fly over a lot of nasty sharp rock on the north shore of Lake Superior. It could lead to a sudden nasty stop. My wife has a pretty face and I'd hate to bounce it off the rightside panel or mash her into the right side control column. But I think I'll just put in 5 point harnesses or shoulder straps. The helmet would scare the hell out of her.

[AcclaimML]

The LAST thing I will be doing in the event of an Emergency is looking for a bloody helmet and trying to put it on properly. I will hopefully be FLYING the airplane...all the way down to an event that I and those I love (if aboard) can walk away from...or survive. This talk of reaching into the back seat and putting on a helmet strikes me as goofy, but whatever makes you guys happy.

Im with you. you cant wear your headsets and a helmet at the same time. Might be okay for the passengers to slap on a helmet if they have the time. Course all your talking about if protecting the face and skull---nothing else. Still need to protect the neck and all the other soft parts. Besides a helmet aint gonna help much if your bounce around inside the cockpit--sorta like a motorcylicist flys around after a moving accident. skull is fine but the rest of the body is mush.

Seriously, I would never get in a plane or car with out putting on a seat belt. A strong roll cage is useless with out holding the occupants inplace inside it. A 3 point belt is cheap in comparison to the "other " losses. Especially if a belt bag isn't available or to expensive. Personally I insist seat belts on before start up and don't come off until after shut down---no exceptions. Never know when youll get that clear air bump or whatever.

[DaV8or]

When I bought my plane, it only had the factory lap belts, ala 1960s style. So I put in the Alpha inertial reel shoulder belts like you have in your car. I love them!! Highly recommend them. When, or if the air bag belts come out for my plane, I will seriously consider them. I think they are great idea and who knows, might have saved this poor guy.

[320KPH]

I think the standard shoulder harness would likely just spin you into the center of the panel anyway. They don't seem well designed to me. They're almost "off the shoulder" harness'.

Even if the guy had survived the impact, he'd be a pretty sick boy...

In my opinion his estate should sue his mechanic for not following the SB. That guy was killed by his mechanic.