First real annual / inspection post acquisition

[SilentT]

Soooo, I got my first estimate for my plane after picking it up 3 weeks ago. 

A whopping 25k.

To be fair it's priced at full retail not used parts or viable alternatives. It also includes many things the A&P said can definitely wait,  but is a comprehensive list of everything they found. But wowzers. 

She was good if I wanted to Source some of my own parts to help save money. 

Gear pucks quoted at $287/ea, where yall buying yours? 

Tailbeacon quoted $2200 anyone got a used one? 

Other big item, encoding alt needs overhaul (3k), might as well throw it away and get alternative plus separate encoder? 

 

[EricJ]

3 minutes ago, SilentT said:

Soooo, I got my first estimate for my plane after picking it up 3 weeks ago. 

A whopping 25k.

To be fair it's priced at full retail not used parts or viable alternatives. It also includes many things the A&P said can definitely wait,  but is a comprehensive list of everything they found. But wowzers. 

She was good if I wanted to Source some of my own parts to help save money. 

Gear pucks quoted at $287/ea, where yall buying yours? 

Tailbeacon quoted $2200 anyone got a used one? 

Other big item, encoding alt needs overhaul (3k), might as well throw it away and get alternative plus separate encoder? 

 

If it is an option, an ADS-B compliant transponder and something else beneficial with an encoder (e.g., a G5 AI or HSI), might be a more long-term efficient use of the money than a tailbeacon and a separate encoder.   Trig makes a little transponder that has a built-in encoder, maybe somebody else does, too.   Otherwise it may be possible to find a used encoder discarded from somebody else's panel upgrade and a decent ADS-B-out compliant transponder.

[Fly Boomer]

27 minutes ago, SilentT said:

Other big item, encoding alt needs overhaul (3k), might as well throw it away and get alternative plus separate encoder? 

If it's a KEA-130a, used prices are all over the map.  Ranging from $600 to multiple thousands.  BAS has an "as removed" for about $600, but they will stand behind it if it doesn't work.

https://baspartsales.com/066-03064-0005-bendix-king-kea-130a-encoding-altimeter-with-mods-14-28v/

[PT20J]

This is the kind of situation where you should take the discrepancy list, separate out the non-airworthiness items and prioritize and group them because, as pointed out above, there are options and you need a roadmap for upgrades so your decisions work together. It's deceptively easy to piecemeal it and find out that the thing you bought last year won't work with the thing you want to buy this year.

If you are willing to say what year and model airplane you have and publish the discrepancy list, I'm sure you will get lots of advice from the forum. 

Personally, I would ask the maintainer to explain each item and how they determined it needs to be done. For example, gear pucks have a specification in the maintenance manual and may well need to be replaced, but the shop should be able to tell you what they measured compared to the spec.

[Schllc]

Good advice here. 
I’ll tell you that a large annual after acquisition is pretty typical. Be careful with “cheap” solutions like the tail beacon. 
if all you want is compliance then it’s fine,  but if you determine you want traffic later, you maybe spending twice. 
excited for you. I have loved and been excited about every Mooney I have ever had, and I have left them all better than I received them!

[SilentT]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

IF you are willing to say what year and model airplane you have and publish the discrepancy list, I'm sure you will get lots of advice from the forum. 

Personally, I would ask the maintainer to explain each item and how they determined it needs to be done. For example, gear pucks have a specification in the maintenance manual and may well need to be replaced, but the shop should be able to tell you what they measured compared to the spec.

I'm happy to share the list, should I redact anything for professionalism? 

Its an 85J

They did explain it all but I was walking through airport and didn't get everything jotted. 

Front NGhas some play but tightest they have ever had come in that wasn't worked on. NG pucks has (insert compression) that was just barely out of spec. Mains were very compressed as an eng it was a lot but don't remember the number. Mains had cracks. All were from '93.

Lots of little stuff 

 

[Flyler]

I just bought a 79 J and had a pre-buy done, and the seller paid around $19k and I put in about $8k (which included paying for the pre-buy, the annual, and about $2000 in extra non-airworthy work).  All pucks were replaced.  I think what you have there is about normal.

We have found some other items, including a bit of rework from the original annual. So far, nothing major.  You know what? I still flippin' love this airplane!  I hope you love yours as well.

[OR75]

like it was said above,  separate airworthiness items vs and others .

to get a starting number, a J inspection should be about ~25 hours. At some average shop rate, that's should be about $3,000 

to change the oil/filter, (tough to avoid when doing inspection) adds a few $100. So round it to $3500.

The shop owes you a list of discrepancies (A/W items) that will need to addressed. You can take your plane to another shop to take care of those.

non A/W items , you can decide to take care of or postpone. The gear pucks are likely not A/W items. 

 

[SilentT]

1 hour ago, Flyler said:

I just bought a 79 J and had a pre-buy done, and the seller paid around $19k and I put in about $8k (which included paying for the pre-buy, the annual, and about $2000 in extra non-airworthy work).  All pucks were replaced.  I think what you have there is about normal.

We have found some other items, including a bit of rework from the original annual. So far, nothing major.  You know what? I still flippin' love this airplane!  I hope you love yours as well.

Let's be clear I was expecting damage. 

Was thinking something in the 15k range. But I won't be taking it anywhere else. I love this shop and I'm being treated with respect and from what I can tell fairly. 

I knew what I was getting into. However, I am seeking feedback and getting quality advice on how to mitigate or spread out some damage. 

[takair]

As others suggested, have the list split to airworthy vs unairworthy. Then there is the question of prebuy inspection and what the owner has disclosed?  Did you have any seller guarantees?  Are there things that’s may have been intentionally hidden?  Long story short, depending on your purchase agreement, you might reach out tot he seller for some assistance, although it would be pretty rare for it to be anything big. Sometime sales happen because folks are no longer willing or able to mountain eh aircraft. Your story is all too common with these aging aircraft. 

[PeterRus]

19 hours ago, SilentT said:

Gear pucks quoted at $287/ea, where yall buying yours? 

Tailbeacon quoted $2200 anyone got a used one? 

DIsk shocks: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/lord-m20-mooney.php. While not an "airworthy item", I'd replace all of them while at it. 

Tailbeacon: agree with others and get a proper ADS-B in/out. 

Edited Saturday at 03:20 PM by PeterRus

[Bartman]

Last year I bought supplies for cowl cracks and rebuild. Did the work this year. 
This year bought new main gear pucks and engine driven fuel pump. Will get new fuel hoses before we begin. Will install pucks and pump next annual. 

My big project this year is the new Hartzell Top Prop install. Doing that under supervision of my IA who over the years knows and trusts my work. I installed it yesterday but still need safety wire, IA inspection, log book and STC paperwork. After a thorough inspection I have no problem becoming the test pilot for return to service. 

Every pilot cannot be as involved or have a relationship with an IA who will work with you like this, but I appreciate it and I really enjoy the work. 
 

[Jackk]

I’d 1000% get a second opinion from a smaller and recommended APIA

 

As for me, 3 aircraft owned so far, never happened, but I’ve never owned a plane that didn’t have a major inspection before I bought it.

 

 IMO a proper prebuy exceeds an annual, an annual only needs covers airworthy, a prebuy covers stated condition and shy of an advertised project plane airworthy alone is a low bar and is expected expected.  I also am there elebows deep in aircraft during this as I’m not rich enough or trusting enough to do this any other way.
 

 Worst I had on a first annual was needing new rubber engine bushings, which is just a post Covid quality dive in the parts, they were new but cracked up with under 100hrs, APIA said he’s been seeing this and we were thankfully able to get some NOS ones. 

Edited Saturday at 04:15 PM by Jackk

[dkkim73]

On 11/7/2025 at 2:00 PM, PT20J said:

This is the kind of situation where you should take the discrepancy list, separate out the non-airworthiness items and prioritize and group them because, as pointed out above, there are options and you need a roadmap for upgrades so your decisions work together. It's deceptively easy to piecemeal it and find out that the thing you bought last year won't work with the thing you want to buy this year.

So... I bought a 2009 longbody from a pretty solid-seeming seller (didn't know him personally), sold by a knowledgeable broker. Plane well taken care-of but hadn't flown much in the few years before sale. No damage history or hidden landmines. Got lots of advice, paid and unpaid. 

The deal (as advised) had an agreed price, and then airworthy items the responsibility of the seller and non-airworthy of the buyer. There were some gray areas which the seller/broker were very reasonable on (eg. splitting a prop overhaul). We had an annual-as-prebuy done at the Mooney Factory Service Center under Michael Kneese. Very professional and honest eyes, lots of great communication. 

I was surprised by the level of detail you get into quickly. I had a *large* spreadsheet I made to track issues. I was *shocked* by the number of things they brought up; they were honest some things were "full disclosure, doesn't meet type design", some were real small but potential Achilles' heels (a wire issue to the air temp sensor which, if it goes wrong, will punk more of the G1000 than you'd think), some were just wear, rigging, etc. The TKS stuff went deep. They really dove into the Garmin servos and we needed two clutches. Lots of little moving parts. I knew I had some cylinder wear issues going in, negotiated that along with other things. The length of the squawk list made me initially think I'd made a mistake.... this was corrected after working through the list with the lead mechanic and an advisor. It's actually a very clean plane. Planes just have lots of little bits.   It felt like a full-time job for a couple months (disclosure: I'm pretty compulsive but I don't think outside 1 SD around here). 

 

On 11/7/2025 at 2:26 PM, Schllc said:

I’ll tell you that a large annual after acquisition is pretty typical.

This was my experience. But it was very worth it to 1. separate out things that you really feel you need to work out with the seller, vs. decide your own priority on 2. know where you are starting. I have a good intuition for the aircraft, what's tip-top, what's going to need interval eyes, what's known wear, etc. It gives you a lot more info for decision-making down the road, and more confidence for flying decisions (I know TKS is solid, servo clutches are solid, after 2 yrs I know where the engine "is", what the turbo innards look like [borescope] etc). 

There will always be surprises, but this gets you "read in" in detail vs. figuring it out later chasing gremlins. 

Funny note @Schllc generously provided a lot of his time on the phone talking me through some aircraft and cylinder issues, advice on the process, etc. @Brandt and others here also stepped up and offered their expertise on-call. 

 

On 11/7/2025 at 6:46 PM, Flyler said:

We have found some other items, including a bit of rework from the original annual. So far, nothing major.  You know what? I still flippin' love this airplane!  I hope you love yours as well.

Yes, amen, amen. That's something to keep your eye on. It's immensely gratifying to have a plane you fly, and know, and in which you have pride of ownership and maintenance. 

On 11/8/2025 at 9:13 AM, Jackk said:

 IMO a proper prebuy exceeds an annual, an annual only needs covers airworthy, a prebuy covers stated condition and shy of an advertised project plane airworthy alone is a low bar and is expected expected.  I also am there elebows deep in aircraft during this as I’m not rich enough or trusting enough to do this any other way.

Yeah, I think this is a good viewpoint. You're taking over the airplane and you ideally want to know everything. You will definitely care about things that are not technically airworthy-determining items. 

My 2nd annual was also a bit much, but that's a mostly-unrelated story. Beware squawk "wish lists" ;). On the bright side, doing the work up-front at purchase prevented knowable surprises. One insight I think is to factor in interval inspections and lifetimes (alternator coupling, prop governor, etc). 

HTH

DK

[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

disclosure: I'm pretty compulsive but I don't think outside 1 SD around here

Most call it OCD.  I prefer CDO (alpha order).  

[Z W]

I've had several large annuals. These are 40+ year old airplanes and things are in a constant state of wearing out and disassembling themselves. They take a lot of work to keep flying. Your estimate does not look unusual to me, but the good news is, it shouldn't be like that every year, hopefully. If the plane needs an upgrade I try to do it in years where the annual came back on the low side.

If you find a shop that will actually list the squawks and offer to fix them for a reasonable shop rate, don't let that shop go, and don't nickel and dime them down on their bill. Too many shops don't do a thorough list, trying to keep costs down, and a few years later, you have airworthiness issues that put you out of service or put your safety at issue. Or you end up with a plane that needs so many things fixed it should be scrapped for salvage value. 

Finding a good A&P to work on the plane has become the biggest challenge in ownership for me. Nobody wants to work on Mooneys and they say the owners are all "cheap". This is a problem that starts with us.

[Rwsavory]

One strategy to keep costs lower would be to defer the non-airworthy issues to give you time to source less expensive parts and labor (maybe even some of your own under supervision).

[Jackk]

3 hours ago, Z W said:

I've had several large annuals. These are 40+ year old airplanes and things are in a constant state of wearing out and disassembling themselves. They take a lot of work to keep flying. Your estimate does not look unusual to me, but the good news is, it shouldn't be like that every year, hopefully. If the plane needs an upgrade I try to do it in years where the annual came back on the low side.

If you find a shop that will actually list the squawks and offer to fix them for a reasonable shop rate, don't let that shop go, and don't nickel and dime them down on their bill. Too many shops don't do a thorough list, trying to keep costs down, and a few years later, you have airworthiness issues that put you out of service or put your safety at issue. Or you end up with a plane that needs so many things fixed it should be scrapped for salvage value. 

Finding a good A&P to work on the plane has become the biggest challenge in ownership for me. Nobody wants to work on Mooneys and they say the owners are all "cheap". This is a problem that starts with us.

Not sure the age is too much of a factor, one of mine is coming up on 80yrs old and it’s super squawk free, that being said if something needs doing I just do it, which keeps maintenance issues down and costs from snowballing.   I’m not sure I could have owned planes over the years without owner assist and being very very involved in everything from turning wrenches to sourcing parts and solutions.

[Schllc]

One other reality. A different set of eyes will almost always find more…

proper expectations will help you assimilate this genre. Take pleasure in knowing your bird is in tip top shape. The consequences are more than inconvenient. 

[SilentT]

This is all great advice. Much of what was mentioned here exists. I couldn't be happier with the apia. Completely fair and transparent. 

The purchase of this plane was not handled as I would have liked. It got a thorough log review, extended relationship and review with the apia that worked on it from 1993, and a second log opinion from lance. But for all intents and purposes was a gamble buy. Got a smokin deal at the time on a plane that had a new engine / prop (hours), and the rest was pretty as is, buy now or it gets repo'd. 

The 25k was max expected labor, and retail / oem new parts. (I'm looking at you Mooney(lasar) landing light switch $500). I'm getting a new one this week with some deferred maintenence. But you guys seem to give shit to owners who defer so I was trying to not be cheap and fix almost all of it. 

However, she said the NG was the tightest she'd had come in that hadn't had work done. But it still had some play at the bushing so she listed it but said np and waiting we would just keep an eye on it. 

No one is going to pay 3500 to overhaul an encoding alt. We are going to get an encoder separate for example.

I've attached the original quote. I've heard some is high, some is low, overall it's fair. Excluding what is obviously not going to get done, she's working on alternatives and I'll get them this week. I'll attach that when it comes in. 

Lastly she's completely happy with me sourcing all my own parts to help costs. As long as they are compliant. She also invited me to participate in all work and annuals going forward. She feels owners who are informed make better customers when it's time to fix something. 

 

 

EST 25-7964 Original 11-7-2025(1).pdf

[SilentT]

Aaaaaand after segregation and review by the apia, she sent this note with this estimate of what truly needs done 

We have an altimeter that passes tests for $550.00, we will need the encoder and I found one for $350.  I took all the parts to cost to help you out.  I found a tail beacon for $1430.00 on Ebay, I didn't add it yet.  

 

EST 25-7964 Revised 11-10-2025.pdf

[Flyler]

It sounds to me like you found a nice plane and A&P so you can both be good stewards/caretakers of it.  That's great.

But, who buys an airplane and doesn't post pictures of it??

[SilentT]

2 minutes ago, Flyler said:

It sounds to me like you found a nice plane and A&P so you can both be good stewards/caretakers of it.  That's great.

But, who buys an airplane and doesn't post pictures of it??

I mean I bought it 15 months ago. I think I did at the time. Here's two from flying cloud when I dropped off the Mooney pros guy after transition training a couple weeks ago

BTW shout out to Mooney pros. Fantastic service and even better value. 

[Flyler]

I'm just "yanking your chain" 

What a beauty!

[dkkim73]

10 minutes ago, Flyler said:

I'm just "yanking your chain" 

What a beauty!

Well it's obviously lacking legit mode A.