Looking at Buying Unairworthy M20J for $45k

[Jackk]

1 hour ago, Ted_G said:

Thanks all for your insight and opinions. I have decided to pass on it. I just thought I might be able to get a good deal on it but since I'm not an A&P that most likely is not the case. Appreciate everyone who posted.

Fair enough, however you don’t need to be a AP to do the work, you just need a AP to sign it off. again that depends on relationships and mechanical ability.  
 

If you’re looking at being a owner I’d highly recommend working on those two. 

[varlajo]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

It’s a long story. I worked for the giant biomed company (Roche) for 20 years till 2010. Then worked for the automation company doing missile and semiconductor projects for 10 years. I was planning on retiring 3 years ago. A month from my retirement a guy I used to work with at Roche said they were forming a new biotech startup. He asked me if I would lead their software development. I told him HELL NO, I was so done with life in the fast lane. He said “What would it take?”. I gave him a crazy high number. And damn it, he said OK. Then after a year or so I did something really stupid. I invested a shit ton of money into this enterprise. Now I’m one of those private equity investors. I asked the CEO for the day off today. He said he didn’t care if I took the day off as long as I came back next week. So I have to hang around until this enterprise is successful. We are close. Two very major huge companies are interested in acquiring us. Then I will have that PC12 and the Mooney will be the play plane.

Are you hiring? 

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, Ted_G said:

Thanks all for your insight and opinions. I have decided to pass on it. I just thought I might be able to get a good deal on it but since I'm not an A&P that most likely is not the case. Appreciate everyone who posted.

Good call. You will not regret that decision.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, Ted_G said:

Thanks all for your insight and opinions. I have decided to pass on it. I just thought I might be able to get a good deal on it but since I'm not an A&P that most likely is not the case. Appreciate everyone who posted.

That decision just saved you unimaginable expense and heartache.

[201Steve]

19 hours ago, Jackk said:

Many folks today majorly overvalue both what their time is worth and what they are worth.

 
  Lots of folks would be better off if they were more useful and less lazy

We could get really philosophical. I find that there is about 10-20 hours per month for me that I ought to fill with something randomly useful. Airplanes, yard, house, car. Any more than that and I’m breaking into my own piggy bank and I’m better off paying someone else. Any less than that, I’m probably being lazy. It really serves as a change of pace, using different “muscles”, that refreshes me for lucrative work.  But I don’t disagree with you. Some people are better off spending 50 hours a month being productive because they wouldn’t use the time to generate income anyway. Everybody is different. But, restoring an airplane is ALOT of time, so you either better enjoy it or simply have nothing better to do bc it’s way better value to just spend marginally more money on an active airplane. In my useless internet opinion, anyway. 

[Jackk]

11 minutes ago, 201Steve said:

We could get really philosophical. I find that there is about 10-20 hours per month for me that I ought to fill with something randomly useful. Airplanes, yard, house, car. Any more than that and I’m breaking into my own piggy bank and I’m better off paying someone else. Any less than that, I’m probably being lazy. It really serves as a change of pace, using different “muscles”, that refreshes me for lucrative work.  But I don’t disagree with you. Some people are better off spending 50 hours a month being productive because they wouldn’t use the time to generate income anyway. Everybody is different. But, restoring an airplane is ALOT of time, so you either better enjoy it or simply have nothing better to do bc it’s way better value to just spend marginally more money on an active airplane. In my useless internet opinion, anyway. 

 I mostly agree 

Normally don’t mow the lawn, it’s not fun for me and my time is better invested elsewhere, I kick $50 to the local kid to do it, that’s for a about 1.5 acres , based on what I can make a hour and me not enjoying mowing, this makes sense.

 

Changing the oil on the plane, I 100% do, how long it takes vs what many shops charge I can see value, I also enjoy it.

 

Changing the oil on our normal car, I’ll take it into the dealer, for what they charge vs how long it takes makes sense, enjoyment for me is 50% of doing it on the plane or one of our more fun vehicles, so I do the drive through oil change. 
 

Guess comes down to enjoyment rate / shops hourly $ rate = chance I do it (or learn to do it) 

[MikeOH]

It's not the value of your time (in dollars), it's how you value your time (what you enjoy doing).

[N201MKTurbo]

17 hours ago, varlajo said:

Are you hiring? 

Actually, we are. We need lab techs who are familiar with molecular biology. They need to work in the Research Triangle area. With the recent cuts in research spending, we have lots to choose from.

[varlajo]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Actually, we are. We need lab techs who are familiar with molecular biology. They need to work in the Research Triangle area. With the recent cuts in research spending, we have lots to choose from.

Yeah, I hear you. It's been a bloodbath. 

[Jackk]

5 hours ago, MikeOH said:

It's not the value of your time (in dollars), it's how you value your time (what you enjoy doing).

Nah

 

The reason we have tons of people who will never outright own their home and are debt slaves is because they value their time like demigods, yet their paycheck says 2025 blue collar, ain’t no shame in being blue collar, just plan and work accordingly 

As I said before, if you ain’t north of 2M per year NET income, roll your damn sleeves up.

 

 I ain’t that rich, but putting in the work and elbow grease I got two planes, cars, property, outright own everything 

The plane in question here, I haven’t seen anything that said it was a good deal or a bad deal, but like those clickbait YouTube videos, sprinkle a little dust and a touch of surface rust and the non calloused hands throw in the flag

[MikeOH]

@Jackk

I have to say I'm sorry that your opinion is so narrow as to exclude others' approaches to life, and view them as inferior.  No point in trying to argue with that arrogance.

I will say I am quite capable with many of the hands-on skills you seem to value above all else.  I retired early debt free, and never made anywhere near $2M/year (or I'd own a PC-12).  Yet, I have no issue paying others for things I am perfectly capable of doing myself because I value my time greatly for things I WANT to do.  An aviation example is that I change my own oil and filter as it's easy and quick.  OTOH, I have A&P/IA friends that would supervise me performing most of the work for my annuals, yet I choose to pay for them as I don't want to invest that kind of time (30-40 hours), regardless of how many dollars it would save me.  I prefer to do other things with that time.

To denigrate those with 'non calloused hands', or those that just don't want a project, seems incredibly elitist to me.

As my high school biology teacher said to our class many years ago, "The only thing you cannot buy more of is time".  None of us knows how much we are given; spend it wisely.

[McMooney]

15 hours ago, Jackk said:

 I mostly agree 

Normally don’t mow the lawn, it’s not fun for me and my time is better invested elsewhere, I kick $50 to the local kid to do it, that’s for a about 1.5 acres , based on what I can make a hour and me not enjoying mowing, this makes sense.

 

Changing the oil on the plane, I 100% do, how long it takes vs what many shops charge I can see value, I also enjoy it.

 

Changing the oil on our normal car, I’ll take it into the dealer, for what they charge vs how long it takes makes sense, enjoyment for me is 50% of doing it on the plane or one of our more fun vehicles, so I do the drive through oil change. 
 

Guess comes down to enjoyment rate / shops hourly $ rate = chance I do it (or learn to do it) 

guilty,  I spend all day changing the oil on birdy but only like 30 mins for the car.. 

just enough time to drive to autozone buy oil and filter then swing by the quickchange.

thinking it's way less hassle to change the oil on birdy than leaving it for my IA.

 

[McMooney]

On 8/14/2025 at 11:35 AM, Schllc said:

100k is wishful thinking.  paint alone will be 30k+.  the have to's are bad enough, when the "while we are there's"  it will go to 200 in the blink of an eye.

hmm,  if no other major system is done, i'd prob could get it done for about 100k

engine overhaul  40000 + paint 25000 + 35k for avionics sounds reasonable 

basic avionics not complete overhaul  2x gi-275 / g5 + garmin gi375 + garmin 215 should work

those kx170bs will work forever if not you can buy a box of them for 1000$

heck drop it off at zephyr and get the paint and engine done at the same time

 

[M20F-1968]

On 8/14/2025 at 1:42 AM, Hank said:

While it is possible to remove a Mooney wing, it comes off all in one piece, not two separate wing sections like a Piper. That means the landing gear linkages have to be disassembled, fuel lines disconnected, control linkages to flaps and ailerons disconnected, pitot static lines unplugged, etc.

The preferred way to truck a Mooney is to drill out the rivets in the fuselage behind the baggage door, and disconnect the tail push rods (2) and trim jackscrew (1). The front section goes on the trailer with the wing lengthwise, and the tail section sits beside it with the horizontal stabilizer lengthwise too. A good MSC can do this, in your area check with Weber in PA, or call Maxwell in Texas.

But for your first plane, this will be quite a leap, and flying may wait a year or more while you fix things up and put the plane back together. It will fly with the outdated panel, but upgrading that will not be inexpensive. 

I completely rebuilt a 1968 F Model to a state of being better than a J, and performs like a J.  I was an Oshkosh winner 2X, 2018 - Outstanding Mooney, and 2019 - Lindy Award best of show in class.

The connection of the tailcone to the roll cage is the weakest part of the Mooney.  If it needs no attention, do not separate it.

The airplane cane be moved on a flat bed truck, remove the engine and engine mount, collapse the nose gear, take off the empennage, and put it on the flat bed with the wings aligned along the length of the trailer.

A lot can be done to these planes.  Find people who have done to work successfully that you plan to do and seek out their advice.  I do not know enough about your engine, but get some expert advice.  It may be ferryable, or you can do an IRAN or overhaul from where it sits and then fly it out.

John Breda

 

[M20F-1968]

Needless to say, corrosion in the airframe is a show stopper.  Was it stored inside or outside.  Mine had been stored, in pieces, indoor near Dallas, TX, inside a hangar.  There was no corrosion, nor was any found as we ]went completely through the airframe.  

It depends what you want.  I bought mine as a project airpl;ane.  My biggest problem was finding honest and competent mechanics as I had endure three dishonest ones before finding the people that helped me make this project a success.  It will be a complicated project and you will need to go through each of the systems of the plane in detail.  It will be an opportunity to completely update a J to a very nice and capable plane if you want that, but you need to determine, without surprises that it is a good candidate for the investment of money and time.

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

I just saw the pictures.  They suggest the plane has been stored outside which is not good.  There is rust around the fuel opening in the wing.  Also not good.  You do not want to be opening up seams in the airframe.  

You will be likely spending more that $100,000.00 on this airplane, and likely multiples of $100,000.00.  

You need to look everywhere for deal breakers, and will need an honest, very experienced person to perform the inspection.  It is an airplane that could likely present to you hidden corrosion that will bite you in the ass if not realized up front.  You need to know for sure that this is a good candidate to be a major project.  This is likely not a $100,000.00 fixer upper, but that answer can only be made after very close examination, 

John Breda

[Fly Boomer]

30 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

I completely rebuilt a 1968 F Model

21 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

Needless to say, corrosion in the airframe is a show stopper

10 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

I just saw the pictures.

See above https://mooneyspace.com/topic/53707-looking-at-buying-unairworthy-m20j-for-45k/page/2/#findComment-921027

[Jackk]

12 hours ago, MikeOH said:

@Jackk

I have to say I'm sorry that your opinion is so narrow as to exclude others' approaches to life, and view them as inferior.  No point in trying to argue with that arrogance.

I will say I am quite capable with many of the hands-on skills you seem to value above all else.  I retired early debt free, and never made anywhere near $2M/year (or I'd own a PC-12).  Yet, I have no issue paying others for things I am perfectly capable of doing myself because I value my time greatly for things I WANT to do.  An aviation example is that I change my own oil and filter as it's easy and quick.  OTOH, I have A&P/IA friends that would supervise me performing most of the work for my annuals, yet I choose to pay for them as I don't want to invest that kind of time (30-40 hours), regardless of how many dollars it would save me.  I prefer to do other things with that time.

To denigrate those with 'non calloused hands', or those that just don't want a project, seems incredibly elitist to me.

As my high school biology teacher said to our class many years ago, "The only thing you cannot buy more of is time".  None of us knows how much we are given; spend it wisely.

 I don’t look down on anyone, but to me some things I don’t get, like the debt culture these days.

 

If you’re paying for others to do the work, if the rate is higher than what you make,, it’s still your time, and you’re going to have to work MORE hours to get the work done.

 

 How if it’s work you really don’t want to do…

[N201MKTurbo]

I got my A&P and IA so I didn’t have to pay someone to work on my plane. Plus I wanted it done right.

I can change the brakes in my truck in less time than it takes to take it some where, and it is a lot cheaper. So it doesn’t save me any time to take it somewhere.

[Echo]

26 minutes ago, Jackk said:

 I don’t look down on anyone, but to me some things I don’t get, like the debt culture these days.

 

If you’re paying for others to do the work, if the rate is higher than what you make,, it’s still your time, and you’re going to have to work MORE hours to get the work done.

 

 How if it’s work you really don’t want to do…

You SO HAD ME at do your own work...because you enjoy it AND because you KNOW it was done correctly...AND THEN you REALLY got judgy and even when you say you are NOT you talk about the debt culture.  I get that too, but you can only live YOUR life and CONTROL, to a degree, what you do and the results.  As far as I am concerned do whatever you want with your possessions and life...BUT when someone comes here asking what I think of entertaining that plane for that price the first comment of RUN AWAY was based on knowledge and experience.  Those that see this airframe as a future flying member of the fleet I just can't agree.  There are PLENTY of Mooney's flying and the fleet needs parts donor aircraft.  Nothing wrong with that.  The bonus is no one was injured and no insurance was engaged to get there.  Just benign neglect.

As a fellow debt free get your knuckles black and bloody guy.  I salute you.  Stopping the why don't others...Is the key to happiness.

[N201MKTurbo]

I bought a derelict 1956 172 for $13000. I sold it in January for $37000. I put about $5000 in parts in it and about 200 hours of labor, so I broke even. 
 

[Echo]

I look at my next door neighbor and quietly compete with him on yard.  He used to cut and bag his own grass.  We both had push mowers.  I am a mulch guy.  Always thought bagging was a lot of extra work emptying the container and putting yardy out every week.  He now hires a company to do his yard.  My competition was to under spend him.  I bought a honda powered zero turn Cub Cadet for my <.5 acre yard.  A ridiculous tool for the job, but I can cut the grass in 15 minutes.  The mower requires a seasonal oil and filter change and a seasonal blade removal and sharpening.  (I cand do both in an hour in my garage over winter) The mower was $2500 ten years ago.  I have SO paid for it vs. PAYING others for that 15 minutes of time I lose.  Neighbor and I are BOTH happy.  I just have more money and satisfaction of looking at a freshly cut lawn that I completed myself.  I value that.

In the vehicle maintenance area Porsche and Ferrari think very highly of their maintenance hourly rates.  I have had so many oil change mess ups by shops over the years that I trust this task to no one other than myself.  I enjoy listening to music and working in my own garage.  The money savings is significant and again, I KNOW job was done right.

[Shadrach]

 

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I bought a derelict 1956 172 for $13000. I sold it in January for $37000. I put about $5000 in parts in it and about 200 hours of labor, so I broke even. 
 

Did that 172 live in a very humid state and live outside, next to a river…on a flood plain?  I am all for resurrecting old airframes, but the is a limit in terms of practicality. that limit largely depends on the buyer and their skillset. When I told the OP it wasn’t for him, I didn’t take it lightly.  My advice to you would be different.  

That being said, I know someone who considered buying it and elected to pass after inspecting it. Incidentally, he’s an IA who has resurrected many old birds from long periods of inactivity.

I borrowed a left wheel off of this bird about 8 years ago when I got a flat after landing at its home airport.

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

I don’t look down on anyone

Good to hear, but if you read your prose objectively it strongly suggests otherwise.

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

but to me some things I don’t get, like the debt culture these days.

Agree 100% on the debt culture.  The answer is 'instant gratification'...but as to 'these days', I think things don't change so much as they remain the same.

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

If you’re paying for others to do the work, if the rate is higher than what you make,, it’s still your time, and you’re going to have to work MORE hours to get the work done.

Well, sure, if you insist on looking at it as a dollar break-even proposition.  We trade our dollars for goods and services all the time and we don't 'break even' on all of those transactions either!  It also fails to take into account PASSIVE income;  my wife and I worked, eliminated debt, and saved so that we could live in "the lifestyle we have become accustomed to" WITHOUT working!  So, by your analysis, I'm now making an infinite amount per hour since I spend zero time working!  Maybe I should look into that PC-12 after all

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

How if it’s work you really don’t want to do…

Exactly! I grew up being tasked with doing all the yard work, mowing, edging, trimming, weed pulling (gawd I hated that!).  Guess what?  After buying our first house I spent exactly one month 'doing it myself' before I hired a gardener...40 years later I've NEVER regretted the money I've spent on gardeners

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, Shadrach said:

Did that 172 live in a very humid state and live outside, next to a river…on a flood plain?  I am all for resurrecting old airframes, but the is a limit in terms of practicality. that limit largely depends on the buyer and their skillset. When I told the OP it wasn’t for him, I didn’t take it lightly.  My advice to you would be different.  

That being said, I know someone who considered buying it and elected to pass after inspecting it. Incidentally, he’s an IA who has resurrected many old birds from long periods of inactivity.

I borrowed a left wheel off of this bird about 8 years ago when I got a flat after landing at its home airport.

 

No, it lived in a hangar at KDVT. The metal will last forever. It was 10 years out of annual. It was mostly the victim of a lot of bad maintenance. The cables were all slack, the pulleys were all stuck. The steering springs were from the Ace Hardware. The strut leaked from everywhere. The engine leaked from everywhere.