Unapproved radio calls poll, which are you?

[midlifeflyer]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

Read AC 90-66B, Non-Towered Airport Flight Operations, you'll find lots of information that you've either never heard or forgotten. For instance:

The very next paragraph says to never use "any traffic in the pattern please advise."

There is even advice for pilots of airplanes without radios, which you seem to thibknits wrong, but I'd perfectly legal at uncontrolled airports. It even tells how to communicate and land at s towered field without a radio, whether you dint have one or it just doesn't work. I had to do that once in a flight review from a towered field when the alternator on the school plane died, and I landed with partial flaps deployed before the battery completely pooped out, but no landing light or radio. Taxiing without lights was quite difficult, too.

Nothing there contradicts anything I said. If you think it does, please quote what I said and the statement in the 66B which contradicts it. I may not have been clear. 

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Nothing there contradicts anything I said. If you think it does, please quote what I said and the statement in the 66B which contradicts it. I may not have been clear. 

It says to identify yourself by type and number, not by type and color, which you espoused as a good practice. 

I can't highlight well using a finger on my phone, but it's inside the red glob here.

[Hank]

55 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

 that there is value in using type and color in a pattern where the whole idea is to visually identify traffic. ...

I don't know why you are so vehemently against "Red and white Mooney 9876Z, left downwind..."

Here's your quote, which I forgot to include, but the refutation of this practice by the FAA is given above. 

Or did I misunderstand that you support self-identification in the pattern as "rad and white Mooney" rather than as for example "Mooney 12A"?

[midlifeflyer]

36 minutes ago, Hank said:

It says to identify yourself by type and number, not by type and color, which you espoused as a good practice. 

I can't highlight well using a finger on my phone, but it's inside the red glob here.

Here, let me try. I'll even use the current version of the AC you apparently never heard of or forgotten  

[midlifeflyer]

34 minutes ago, Hank said:

Here's your quote, which I forgot to include, but the refutation of this practice by the FAA is given above. 

Or did I misunderstand that you support self-identification in the pattern as "rad and white Mooney" rather than as for example "Mooney 12A"?

Apparently you misunderstood ""Red and white Mooney 9876Z," to mean "Red and while Mooney" without the callsign. 

And why are you shortening that tail number? Have you forgotten or disregarded how the guidance uses the entire callsign? And how the AIM discusses abbreviated call signs only when ATC uses it first? 

[201er]

On 8/30/2024 at 10:38 PM, takair said:

Didn’t know it was unapproved, but I find “clear of the active” useful at airports where there is a hump obscuring the opposite end of the runway. 

While we're at it looking at AC 90-66B, it actually specifies the word "active" as unapproved.

Also "any traffic please advise" is strictly forbidden:

 

[midlifeflyer]

3 minutes ago, 201er said:

While we're at it looking at AC 90-66B, it actually specifies the word "active" as unapproved.

As long as wea re being super-technical, while @Hank keeps drawing out attention to AC90-66B we really should be looking at AC90-66C. 

 

[Hank]

22 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Apparently you misunderstood ""Red and white Mooney 9876Z," to mean "Red and while Mooney" without the callsign. 

And why are you shortening that tail number? Have you forgotten or disregarded how the guidance uses the entire callsign? And how the AIM discusses abbreviated call signs only when ATC uses it first? 

1. Yes, that's what I read that you wrote. 
2. There is no ATC at uncontrolled fields . . . As also noted above, more and more I'm defaulting to "Mooney 12A is clear" when exiting the runway. 

[Hank]

21 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

As long as wea re being super-technical, while @Hank keeps drawing out attention to AC90-66B we really should be looking at AC90-66C. 

 

Please forgive me for not querying the FAA database, I just Google "radio calls at uncontrolled fields" and skipped over all of the training books, AOPA videos, etc., in favor of an FAA publication.

So what changed in the "radio calls at uncontrolled fields" between Rev B and Rev C?

[Yetti]

On 8/30/2024 at 9:38 PM, takair said:

Didn’t know it was unapproved, but I find “clear of the active” useful at airports where there is a hump obscuring the opposite end of the runway. 

I changed it to say "Clear of Runway"   just to annoy the nit pickers.  It's just a nicety to give to the other people like me that keep a tight pattern and don't fly 747 patterns in a SEL.

Edited September 1, 2024 by Yetti

[Pinecone]

On 8/31/2024 at 8:29 AM, mooneyflyer said:

I thought there wasn't any "active" at an uncontrolled field, only "runway in use"

FINALLY.

This the point of why that call is incorrect.

Clear of the runway (if there is only one piece of pavement or landing surface) or Clear of XX both are reasonable

 

[EricJ]

4 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I changed it to say "Clear of Runway"   just to annoy the nit pickers.  It's just a nicety to give to the other people like me that keep a tight pattern and don't fly 747 patterns in a SEL.

I find that one useful as well, and also stopped using "active" and just substitute "runway".   It does make it better, I think.

[Pinecone]

In my CAP-10, I do not use type/make/model.  

My home field is the primary maintenance facility for MD wing CAP.  So a lot of CAP call signs, that means a Cessna (and one GA_8 AirVan).  So saying CAP-10 might get people looking for the wrong type of plane.   So I use red/white aerobatic and my tail number.  The red/white sunburst is pretty visible.

[Pinecone]

I think some people are lying about not giving a Meow.  Too may airline pilots here to not have a SINGLE ONE.

 

[201er]

37 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

As long as wea re being super-technical, while @Hank keeps drawing out attention to AC90-66B we really should be looking at AC90-66C. 

 

In the newest revision of AC90-66C, they still haven't changed their stance on "active runway" or "any traffic please advise"

[Yetti]

9 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I find that one useful as well, and also stopped using "active" and just substitute "runway".   It does make it better, I think.

I find that people that flying large patterns in slower aircraft are more annoying than what they say on the radio.   We are all up there to get safely on the ground as long as meanings are conveyed it's all good.   What is really interesting the super long radio transmission but they still don't convey meaning.    I just ask.  Had this happen recently, guy was saying everything but his intentions about the pattern.   I think this is caused because everybody thinks they are watching their screens with ADSB.  Ended up "Tell me what you are going to do when you get to the airport?"

Also I will call my number in the pattern.  "Cool I will be number 2 behind the Cessna"

Edited September 1, 2024 by Yetti

[DXB]

Interesting discussion. These days I try to behave to some degree by AIM guidance but more so by what I myself find useful and courteous from others.  My related two cents:

(1) I say "clear all runways" after landing because I find it useful when others do similar. Entering and exiting a runway generally seems worthy of announcement to any other traffic that may be landing or waiting to depart.  I only mention runway number when departing or when crossing a runway during taxi. Saying "the active" seems unhelpful.

(2) Despite what the AIM says, I think announcing tail numbers on CTAF is mostly useless; by contrast, I find knowing the general aircraft characteristics useful (e.g. Citation vs. Mooney vs. 172 vs. Cub)  so I always announce that.  If there are multiple aircrafts of the same type around, one might use additional identifiers e.g. "second Mooney," "blue and white Mooney," or "10mi straight in Cirrus Prick" .  At a busy nontowered field, I want to hear something that's easier to keep straight than a full tail number!

(3) My first call when approaching a desolate, radio-silent field where I'm lined up with the runway is something like " Blah Blah traffic, Mooney 10 mi east, landing straight in rwy 27 IF there's no one's near the pattern at  Blah Blah"  I'm not asking anyone to make additional calls specifically on my behalf (like the despicable "traffic in the area please advise" ) , but if there's someone in the pattern not making position reports, it's a nudge to start so I can consider a standard pattern entry

(4) @midlifeflyer's responses to "any traffic in the area" (It’s bumper to. bumper on Route 1) and "last call" (two bud lights please) should be codified as favored phraseology in the AIM, and I will use them going forward.   

(5) My opinions on (1) (2)& (3) can be altered by reasoning and evidence.  However, it is a fundamental and unalienable truth there are only two kinds of pilots on earth: those who say "meow," "let's go Brandon,"  "hawk tuah," or similar on 121.5, and those who do not 

 

[DXB]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

I find that one useful as well, and also stopped using "active" and just substitute "runway".   It does make it better, I think.

Or "clear all runways" at fields with multiple

[Jim Peace]

4 hours ago, Schllc said:

Any communication, technically correct or not, at an uncontrolled field, is welcome in my opinion. 

TRUTH......

[EricJ]

11 minutes ago, DXB said:

Or "clear all runways" at fields with multiple

That might be misunderstood to mean that all runways are clear, when they might not be.    

[DXB]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

That might be misunderstood to mean that all runways are clear, when they might not be.    

Hmm - maybe  "Mooney's clear of all runways"

[201er]

14 minutes ago, DXB said:

Hmm - maybe  "Mooney's clear of all runways"

I still don’t understand on the persistence of calling it anything but the runway number you’d been calling it all throughout the pattern.

To make a point, suppose I landed at KCHD when the tower is closed, I would announce as follows:

“Chandler traffic, Mooney N123 clear of 22 left at Lima, taxiing across 22 right Chandler.”

”Chandler traffic, Mooney N123 clear of 22 right at Lima, taxiing Alpha Mike to the pump, Chandler”

[DXB]

1 minute ago, 201er said:

I still don’t understand on the persistence of calling it anything but the runway number you’d been calling it all throughout the pattern.

To make a point, suppose I landed at KCHD when the tower is closed, I would announce as follows:

“Chandler traffic, Mooney N123 clear of 22 left at Lima, taxiing across 22 right Chandler.”

”Chandler traffic, Mooney N123 clear of 22 right at Lima, taxiing Alpha Mike to the pump, Chandler”

If you're not on any runway, then which one you're not on is irrelevant. Thus omitting the information related to the one you landed reduces chances for confusion and error on part of both the speaker and the listener.

[EricJ]

5 minutes ago, 201er said:

I still don’t understand on the persistence of calling it anything but the runway number you’d been calling it all throughout the pattern.

To make a point, suppose I landed at KCHD when the tower is closed, I would announce as follows:

“Chandler traffic, Mooney N123 clear of 22 left at Lima, taxiing across 22 right Chandler.”

”Chandler traffic, Mooney N123 clear of 22 right at Lima, taxiing Alpha Mike to the pump, Chandler”

Nothing wrong with any of that, I think.   But at a poorly marked, unfamiliar airport, "clear of the runway" tells traffic following or waiting to take off that you're out of the way, which is really what they are most likely to want to know.

[201er]

8 minutes ago, DXB said:

If you're not on any runway, then which one you're not on is irrelevant. Thus omitting the information related to the one you landed reduces chances for confusion and error on part of both the speaker and the listener.

By that logic, just announce that your downwind, base, and final to the big black runway with white lines that you're not presently on lest you confuse someone