baffle replacement

[NewMoon]

Got quoted $1,500 to replace on my Ovation.  Anyone get it done lately? Cost?

[Marc_B]

The materials aren't that expensive, but the labor is what gets you.  My shop charged me 15 hours for replacement, which was right around your quote.  It's one of those tedious projects that you can do yourself to save money, but shop might do it faster and cleaner.  GeeBeeAeroproducts sells a baffle seal kit and might have one for you that's precut and sent with all the rivets.

[SKI]

I did mine on my J model recently. I bought the seals from GeeBeeAeroproducts. I probably had 12-15 hours labor. The seals are precut and required VERY little trimming but definitely some trimming and fiddling around. If your handy I'd order the seal kit from Guy and do it yourself. If you want someone to do it, I'd say $1500.00 probably isn't too bad.

[NewMoon]

1 hour ago, Marc_B said:

The materials aren't that expensive, but the labor is what gets you.  My shop charged me 15 hours for replacement, which was right around your quote.  It's one of those tedious projects that you can do yourself to save money, but shop might do it faster and cleaner.  GeeBeeAeroproducts sells a baffle seal kit and might have one for you that's precut and sent with all the rivets.

excellent,  thx

[Danb]

2 hours ago, NewMoon said:

Got quoted $1,500 to replace on my Ovation.  Anyone get it done lately? Cost?

I’m not much of a mechanic actually rather poor, but I ordered GBs baffles for my Bravo and installed them, take your time lay them out and put in place as your original set. Mine turned out great along wit about 15* improvements 

[shawnd]

I will also add that @Gee Bee Aeroproducts's baffle is of the right thickness and his pre-cut ones makes it easy to achieve the right curve on the top that allows the seal to fold down when installing the cowling but also fold up and seal the engine area with air pushing on it.  I did all the work myself with help and supervision from A&P. Fun weekend project.

It went from this (click to expand):

to:

         

[NewMoon]

16 hours ago, shawnd said:

I will also add that @Gee Bee Aeroproducts's baffle is of the right thickness and his pre-cut ones makes it easy to achieve the right curve on the top that allows the seal to fold down when installing the cowling but also fold up and seal the engine area with air pushing on it.  I did all the work myself with help and supervision from A&P. Fun weekend project.

It went from this (click to expand):

to:

         

great, appreciate the photos

[M20F]

Maxwell did mine in June of 23, pretty sure they were done last with the SWTA cowling.  
 
Looks very nice now.  Makes zero difference in any sort of cooling.  
 
This is one of those things I am not certain the squeeze is worth the juice.

PS I have a set of @Gee Bee Aeroproducts baffling that I intended to put on myself but just let Paul and folks do it.  I would echo it’s a quality product.  

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

We die cut to original design, material is correct 

.093

 

ams3195 shown for oil cooler support 

 

[Slick Nick]

Aside from a visual inspection, what’s the best indicator someone could look for to determine if the old baffles need replacement?

[Fritz1]

feel the pressure of the baffles against the cowl, don't count on ram air pressure to close them, nothing beats visual inspection, use a light and see where it shines though the baffles, that is where you are loosing cooling airflow, check the metal baffles between the cylinders, small holes and gaps add up, close whatever you can with new baffles, use high temp silicone for remaining gaps and holes

[shawnd]

+1 to what @Fritz1 said.

Also, be sure to check the intake plenum where it passes through the baffle. Different A&Ps try to patch it over time and sometimes the rubber material just gets too old or doesn't seal properly and is another source of bypass.

[PT20J]

It must be a lot harder on the K than the J. I bought new seals from Guy @Gee Bee Aeroproducts when we swapped out the engine. The hardest part was removing the hardened staples attaching the old seals to the baffles which I did with a Dremel cutoff wheel. It probably took me an hour or less. My A&P attached the new ones with the pop rivets that Guy supplied in less than an hour. 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

Back in the 90”s

we removed the seals

powder coated the baffles 

Return to the shop , seals should be installed on the engine.

Rear seals pulled tight so you aquire a forward bend , cowl drops / seal will not blow back.

I have done hundreds since then.

since 1991 , free tooling to oem or stc holders

 

my latest is the silicone caliper bleed cap based on the brembo caliper.

Iam designing a new wheel and brake assy, three piston/ slotted rotor / Cnc wheel with hub cap .

I will be oem / stc with Michelin tire for two different 8” tires 

GB

[hazek]

Would be also cool to hear some experiences how much more cooling people get once they replace the baffles.

[EricJ]

19 hours ago, Slick Nick said:

Aside from a visual inspection, what’s the best indicator someone could look for to determine if the old baffles need replacement?

Use flashlight or other light source in the cowl and look back and forth from the cowl inlet to the oil hatch (on Lycomings, anyway), to see if there are any big gaps between the baffles and the cowl.    The top of the baffle gasket should bend over and lay flat against the bottom of the cowl, pointing toward the center of the engine.

When I bought my airplane the baffles themselves were in pretty good shape but they were all cut too short and didn't seal well against the cowl.    After landing some of them, especially at the back, would be folded back the wrong way.   I replaced it all with gaskets tall enough to seal against the cowl and it made a big difference, enough that I could fully close the cowl flaps at cruise.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, hazek said:

Would be also cool to hear some experiences how much more cooling people get once they replace the baffles.

I went from getting hot oil alarms when cruising in the teens and needing to keep the cowl flaps open in cruise on warm days, to having essentially zero cooling issues.    

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

I went from getting hot oil alarms when cruising in the teens and needing to keep the cowl flaps open in cruise on warm days, to having essentially zero cooling issues.    

Glad to hear it!

I wish I'd had similar results but mine only dropped a few degrees (maybe 5) when I cleaned up the baffle seals. In summer I'm still around 220F oil temp in cruise 

[Fritz1]

cleaning up the baffles, closing all nooks and crannies around the alternators, around the oil cooler and around the intercooler I daresay the CHTs dropped 15 dF on my Bravo engine, fine wire plugs also helped some, high power cruise in the teens at 29/2400 100df rich 1st to peak, I can fully close the cowl flaps now and stay below 380 on the hottest CHT, oil below 215, TIT 1580 or below, sealing baffles is the least expensive performance improvement money can buy, a couple of rubber pieces, pop rivets, RTV and persistence will do the trick every time

[shawnd]

Being OCD about fixing gaps and closing them helps. Along with proper baffle seals to begin with. Take a look at the TCM engine M-0 manual for a description of the flow (I think I remember seeing it there). We are trying to establish the pressure to effectively cause a draft of air across the top of the cylinders and then pushed through the oil cooler and cylinder baffles down to the lower side which is in the lower pressure zone. Anything that detracts from building up that pressure, reduces cooling effectiveness.

[shawnd]

I stand corrected, it’s OI-8. Installation and operation manual. Here’s a screenshot for those interested:

[Fly Boomer]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:27 PM, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

my latest is the silicone caliper bleed cap based on the brembo caliper.

Love the bleed caps!

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

On 8/31/2024 at 3:30 PM, Fly Boomer said:

Love the bleed caps!

Thanx 

1500.00 for the mold to mfg a 10.00 part 

Just a part in a new brake assy 

same we did on the zerk caps and squat switch cover 

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

Just a part in a new brake assy 

Wish my gear looked that clean.

[MikeOH]

49 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Wish my gear looked that clean.

Pshaw!  In the first photo one of the cotter keys is painted over...sloppy!