Swapping out VM1000 for JPI M20L conversion

[VA FLYER]

N142MP, 1988 M20L converted by Mod Works with IO-550N. Vision Microsystems VM1000 has had several display/sensor problems, so I'm investigating the update/upgrade. I've looked at JPI stuff but has anyone done the upgrade using any manufacturer's EMS unit?

Tim

[KSMooniac]

I'm not sure what you're asking...an opinion on JPI's products?  I am a fan, and upgraded the EDM-700 that came in my J with an EDM-900 and couldn't be happier.  You could very likely adapt the larger -930 into the space occupied by your VM1000 and you'll love it.  It will be a full install with 40-60 hours of labor, so understand that going in.  None of the Vision stuff will be retained or reused.  

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, VA FLYER said:

N142MP, 1988 M20L converted by Mod Works with IO-550N. Vision Microsystems VM1000 has had several display/sensor problems, so I'm investigating the update/upgrade. I've looked at JPI stuff but has anyone done the upgrade using any manufacturer's EMS unit?

Tim

I think the problem you may have is that the JPI STC may not cover an M20L with an IO-550 STC. The STC might cover the M20L but not with that engine.

I would try to keep outlay down and just replace the display if that would do it. Here’s one you could make an offer on: https://www.ebay.com/itm/226182560180?itmmeta=01J47QRZ2B9YCVNEPCC6PNAZ7A&hash=item34a987f9b4:g:3pcAAOSw4ixmY4Yz&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABEFkdvsJwb2Ck9Zl1ej1opm3I4oiYu%2FcYp2b05QKzTfkKiiX71KQDp35fr75a0M8uOR7hJ63wBVYZj%2Bo1GypPnWHaRITO3UYWi7gQJ9Ja4OKYkI24PIIhJPty1t2ljElXeY5XsnptaccRC5bmSEjkygpu8I7fhjh2aXW%2BgHT3lRBdX3bpXbnDVHhUFmN4Uad7cplFKYCfgVziCJkUMeT56AjsjrYuapwBe28pGhviQrQ9bMux7Vb013oJS2Hg2W2srmCRFuPvuxoHPzQKUvQ807ckrbhW%2BuW9Ge0qnTjDofyyWNtybpR5HM%2F6nCk1WthfU%2Fc7m7YGXKB4enXBd4n1CkmDwEwnKtUw76GBaGPIkXLv|tkp%3ABk9SR5rx4_ehZA

 

 

[1980Mooney]

5 hours ago, VA FLYER said:

N142MP, 1988 M20L converted by Mod Works with IO-550N. Vision Microsystems VM1000 has had several display/sensor problems, so I'm investigating the update/upgrade. I've looked at JPI stuff but has anyone done the upgrade using any manufacturer's EMS unit?

Tim

 

29 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I think the problem you may have is that the JPI STC may not cover an M20L with an IO-550 STC. The STC might cover the M20L but not with that engine.

I would try to keep outlay down and just replace the display if that would do it. Here’s one you could make an offer on: https://www.ebay.com/itm/226182560180?itmmeta=01J47QRZ2B9YCVNEPCC6PNAZ7A&hash=item34a987f9b4:g:3pcAAOSw4ixmY4Yz&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABEFkdvsJwb2Ck9Zl1ej1opm3I4oiYu%2FcYp2b05QKzTfkKiiX71KQDp35fr75a0M8uOR7hJ63wBVYZj%2Bo1GypPnWHaRITO3UYWi7gQJ9Ja4OKYkI24PIIhJPty1t2ljElXeY5XsnptaccRC5bmSEjkygpu8I7fhjh2aXW%2BgHT3lRBdX3bpXbnDVHhUFmN4Uad7cplFKYCfgVziCJkUMeT56AjsjrYuapwBe28pGhviQrQ9bMux7Vb013oJS2Hg2W2srmCRFuPvuxoHPzQKUvQ807ckrbhW%2BuW9Ge0qnTjDofyyWNtybpR5HM%2F6nCk1WthfU%2Fc7m7YGXKB4enXBd4n1CkmDwEwnKtUw76GBaGPIkXLv|tkp%3ABk9SR5rx4_ehZA

@LANCECASPERis correct that the JPI STC SA01435SE  only lists originally manufactured airframes - no modifications.  For example the numerous Rocket Engineering K/J mods Rocket and Missile are not listed either. 

http://www.jpitech.com/manuals/04/900-930 AML and STC.pdf

But it does not seem to be an issue.  Here is a converted M20L with a JPI EDM 900 (primary instrument) that sold in the last year.  I assume he got field approval.  So if money is no object spend away.

https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/231785879/n823th-1988-mooney-m20l-pfm

I also found a Rocket conversion (also not on the JPI STC AML) with the larger JPI EDM 930 (primary instrument).  So it seems prevalent and easy to do if you wish to spend the cash.

https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/220371009/n252ac-1988-mooney-m20k-305-rocket

 

[KSMooniac]

I don't think JPI can list every possible STC combo in their AML, and am surprised to see so many explicitly listed.  When I did my upgrade (2015) I had to submit my POH markings and include any applicable STC's that changed anything.  In my case, that was the MT prop that deletes the RPM restrictions (yellow arc on tach) so they programmed my unit to delete the yellow arc since I had the substantiating documentation.  I don't see my M20J combo listed on their AML today, either.  That is a perfectly rational and legal path IMO, so I don't see why a modified M20L with the appropriate STC documentation could not be covered by JPI.

[VA FLYER]

6 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I'm not sure what you're asking...an opinion on JPI's products?  I am a fan, and upgraded the EDM-700 that came in my J with an EDM-900 and couldn't be happier.  You could very likely adapt the larger -930 into the space occupied by your VM1000 and you'll love it.  It will be a full install with 40-60 hours of labor, so understand that going in.  None of the Vision stuff will be retained or reused.  

Thanks very much. I will have to investigate the STC issue with my friendly local FAA. 

[VA FLYER]

43 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

@LANCECASPERis correct that the JPI STC SA01435SE  only lists originally manufactured airframes - no modifications.  For example the numerous Rocket Engineering K/J mods Rocket and Missile are not listed either. 

http://www.jpitech.com/manuals/04/900-930 AML and STC.pdf

But it does not seem to be an issue.  Here is a converted M20L with a JPI EDM 900 (primary instrument) that sold in the last year.  I assume he got field approval.  So if money is no object spend away.

https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/231785879/n823th-1988-mooney-m20l-pfm

I also found a Rocket conversion (also not on the JPI STC AML) with the larger JPI EDM 930 (primary instrument).  So it seems prevalent and easy to do if you wish to spend the cash.

https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/220371009/n252ac-1988-mooney-m20k-305-rocket

 

Well, that's not good news. I will research it. Thanks

[VA FLYER]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

I think the problem you may have is that the JPI STC may not cover an M20L with an IO-550 STC. The STC might cover the M20L but not with that engine.

I would try to keep outlay down and just replace the display if that would do it. Here’s one you could make an offer on: https://www.ebay.com/itm/226182560180?itmmeta=01J47QRZ2B9YCVNEPCC6PNAZ7A&hash=item34a987f9b4:g:3pcAAOSw4ixmY4Yz&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABEFkdvsJwb2Ck9Zl1ej1opm3I4oiYu%2FcYp2b05QKzTfkKiiX71KQDp35fr75a0M8uOR7hJ63wBVYZj%2Bo1GypPnWHaRITO3UYWi7gQJ9Ja4OKYkI24PIIhJPty1t2ljElXeY5XsnptaccRC5bmSEjkygpu8I7fhjh2aXW%2BgHT3lRBdX3bpXbnDVHhUFmN4Uad7cplFKYCfgVziCJkUMeT56AjsjrYuapwBe28pGhviQrQ9bMux7Vb013oJS2Hg2W2srmCRFuPvuxoHPzQKUvQ807ckrbhW%2BuW9Ge0qnTjDofyyWNtybpR5HM%2F6nCk1WthfU%2Fc7m7YGXKB4enXBd4n1CkmDwEwnKtUw76GBaGPIkXLv|tkp%3ABk9SR5rx4_ehZA

 

 

Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought about the STC issue, but then neither did the JPI rep. I spoke to at Oshkosh! I hate to buy used avionics because there is usually a good reason they were removed and replaced. But I'll see of my current issues are with the display. I don't like it much, but I don't dislike it $6000 worth.

[LANCECASPER]

Just now, VA FLYER said:

Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought about the STC issue, but then neither did the JPI rep. I spoke to at Oshkosh! I hate to buy used avionics because there is usually a good reason they were removed and replaced. But I'll see of my current issues are with the display. I don't like it much, but I don't dislike it $6000 worth.

$6000 plus $4000-$5000 for installation

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

For example the numerous Rocket Engineering K/J mods Rocket and Missile are not listed either. 

The AML I have includes STC SA5691NM which is the Rocket.

[1980Mooney]

37 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

The AML I have includes STC SA5691NM which is the Rocket.

Good catch. 

Edited August 1 by 1980Mooney

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, VA FLYER said:

Well, that's not good news. I will research it. Thanks

 

46 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

The AML I have includes STC SA5691NM which is the Rocket.

I see now that the 3/18/2008 AML does not list any of the STC Holders by name but instead includes a few STC's by Airframe such as those by Rocket Engineering.

The Mod Works M20L conversion was STC Number: SA02624AT and the Mod Works VM1000  installation on multiple Mooneys was STC Number: SA01516AT.

I don't see either one on the AML.

But somehow N823TH, a Mod Works converted M20L has a JPI EDM900.

https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/231785879/n823th-1988-mooney-m20l-pfm

[jlunseth]

I did a little online checking and saw that JPI bought out Vision Microsystems and they (JPI) have some information on their website about their VM1000. They apparently provide some customer support for it. If you find the STC issue insurmountable, you could try them to see if they can service the VM1000. See https://www.jpinstruments.com/technical-support/video-tutorials/vision-micro-vm-1000c/