Window and door seals

[wombat]

Well, long story short, I'm getting a new door seal.

 

I replaced the storm window seal on my Mooney about a week ago.    The plane has always (since I bought it last year) been quite noisy and I discovered when I pressed against the back of the storm window it would reduce the hissing quite a bit.  In flight it's now incredibly obvious that the majority of the noise is now coming from the door instead of "all over" like I thought before.  I'm very much looking forward to having this done. 

[Marc_B]

Curious…What seal did you decide on??  Be sure and post pics. 

[Z W]

@Gee Bee Aeroproducts makes excellent door and baggage seals for Mooneys.  I have a set sitting in box I have not yet had time to get put on but they seem to be excellent quality.  He recently bought a baggage door and set up molds to do an extrusion to offer those as well.  

https://www.csobeech.com/GeeBee.html

[Marc_B]

I'll probably replace my seal in the next year or so and somewhat inclined to use Geebees seal.  But I've not seen any reports/pictures of his seals on a Mooney.  @Z W post up when you have it installed with details.  Sounds like he also has a rev II that has a larger/thinner bulb on the P that fits uneven spaces more easily.  Same to you @wombat, whatever you go with let us all know the details!

[jetdriven]

We have the newest version door seal from Ginbey on our plane, and it’s pretty good. The back of the door stick out about a 16th of an inch because it can’t quite compress like the foam seal can it’s silicone, silicone doesn’t compress as well. But it does seal very well and aside for the door being a little firm to latch. It’s great.

[wombat]

I ordered the ADS-M1201 from Aircraft Door Seals, LLC.    

 

Is it the best?  I don't know.   

Will it work?  I'm highly confident it will.

[PT20J]

9 hours ago, jetdriven said:

We have the newest version door seal from Ginbey on our plane, and it’s pretty good. The back of the door stick out about a 16th of an inch because it can’t quite compress like the foam seal can it’s silicone, silicone doesn’t compress as well. But it does seal very well and aside for the door being a little firm to latch. It’s great.

What glue did you use?

[Marc_B]

@jetdriven pics?

[jetdriven]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:34 AM, PT20J said:

What glue did you use?

The clear glue with the catalyst or whatever it is that Guy sells with the kit. I can tell you right now that 1300 L doesn’t even come close to holding the door seal on the side of the plane, and we haven’t found anything else either.

[wombat]

Worked on my door seal over the last two days.   So far I've gotten the old one off and the old glue cleaned up.   It was kind of painful, probably took me 5 hours.   But I think there were at least three layers of old adhesive under there, so the new one should stick well.

The Peerco 321 Adhesive Remover was critical to getting this stuff off.  No way would it have worked without something.

 

I bought the 3M "Yellow Super Weatherstrip and Gasket Adhesive" part 08001.  We'll see how that works I guess.

[PT20J]

Many

people use too much glue.

[LANCECASPER]

38 minutes ago, wombat said:

Worked on my door seal over the last two days.   So far I've gotten the old one off and the old glue cleaned up.   It was kind of painful, probably took me 5 hours.   But I think there were at least three layers of old adhesive under there, so the new one should stick well.

The Peerco 321 Adhesive Remover was critical to getting this stuff off.  No way would it have worked without something.

 

I bought the 3M "Yellow Super Weatherstrip and Gasket Adhesive" part 08001.  We'll see how that works I guess.

I've used 3M weatherstrip adhesive for 40 years on cars and other projects, but the RTV108 that came with the Bob Fields Inflatable Door Seal worked extremely well on the project I did a few years ago. (Skip loves 3M Yellow and has made it work well on his door seal. He is much more talented than I am. )

Why, in my opinion, the RTV108 was much better was all of the adjusting after initial installation that needed to be done. The RTV108 allowed me to do that. Again, only my opinion, but 3M Yellow product's biggest advantage is that it sticks so well turns out to be a disadvantage in this project. 

RTV108: https://www.amazon.com/Momentive-RTV108-Silicone-Sealant-Translucent/dp/B004V40R2M/ref=asc_df_B004V40R2M?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80882875798450&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584482455452324&th=1

[PT20J]

40 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

He is much more talented than I am

 No, it just took me three tries to learn how to do it. I've never tried RTV 108 on the door seal.  I'm a little leery of the two part industrial stuff Guy supplies with his silicone seals because I'm afraid I might never get it off if a seal got damaged. He sent me some of that with a silicone anti-chafe seal for the cowling but I chickened out and glued it down with RTV 108.

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, wombat said:

Worked on my door seal over the last two days.   So far I've gotten the old one off and the old glue cleaned up.   It was kind of painful, probably took me 5 hours.   But I think there were at least three layers of old adhesive under there, so the new one should stick well.

The Peerco 321 Adhesive Remover was critical to getting this stuff off.  No way would it have worked without something.

 

I bought the 3M "Yellow Super Weatherstrip and Gasket Adhesive" part 08001.  We'll see how that works I guess.

Also it's one cotter pin to take the door slide off, which makes it so much easier to work on the door seal.

[wombat]

3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Also it's one cotter pin to take the door slide off, which makes it so much easier to work on the door seal.

Yes, I did end up taking that off to get the bottom.

[shawnd]

19 hours ago, wombat said:

The Peerco 321 Adhesive Remover was critical to getting this stuff off.  No way would it have worked without something.

I bought the 3M "Yellow Super Weatherstrip and Gasket Adhesive" part 08001.  We'll see how that works I guess.

Peerco 321 seems like it did a darn good job. My previous attempt with other products failed miserably. Which may have also led to the 3M product failing after 2 years. Anyone else have thoughts on the adhesive to use for the door seals?

Regarding the door seals - I bought mine previously off Aircraft Spruce - will have to try GeeBee's. His baffle seal is perfect.

[shawnd]

Also - what is the best strategy to determine how to align the seal when gluing it on. I.e., how many inches offset from the edge of the door should we start applying adhesive? I fear my previous one was more of a best guess attempt which resulted in increase in noise in the cabin.

[Schllc]

I’ve tried everything except the inflatable seal. My Aerostar has an inflatable door seal and the difference is amazing. If you don’t want the inflatable seal, then the only way I have found to make it tight is to get the 1/4” self adhesive weatherstripping to supplement the gaps where the factory seal just doesn’t do the job. 
Not saying a factory seal can’t be perfected, I’m sure lots of guys get tight seals, I was never able to do so without the Home Depot stuff. 

[wombat]

Finally took it flying this morning.  The result was disappointing to say the least.    There is no contact at all between the seal and the door frame for about 1/3 of the way around the door.

Before I just rip this one off and go for the inflatable seal I'll try to shim this one out to meet the door frame.

[jetdriven]

you can get a factory door seal from LASAR now, and aside from the newest thin wall Gee Bee seal, its the only thing that works.

[LANCECASPER]

14 hours ago, wombat said:

Finally took it flying this morning.  The result was disappointing to say the least.    There is no contact at all between the seal and the door frame for about 1/3 of the way around the door.

Before I just rip this one off and go for the inflatable seal I'll try to shim this one out to meet the door frame.

Every door and every frame is slightly different. The seal has to be adjusted once you fly with it to see where it's leaking. On mine and others the bottom of the door needed a little neoprene shimming. If I remember I also shimmed the rear lower corner - but that may be different on another door. If you're looking for a perfect fit, it will probably take 3 to 5 flights and minor adjustments after. That's why the adhesive that you use has to be able to be pulled back in those areas.

If anyone hires a shop to do it I don't think that they are going to take that much time to get it right, or that you'll want to pay $1000 - $1500 labor for them to do so. It's very time-consuming.

[PT20J]

The bottom is the hardest to get the seal placement right. The front, top and rear are held in place by pins, hinges and latches, but not the bottom. Also, the bottom has the cutout for the hold open arm and the curvature of the door corners doesn’t match the fuselage. 

[shawnd]

Ordered my door seals from Lasar, thanks @jetdriven. 

Also, good description of cleaning the surface and seal installation process from Aircraft Door Seals can be found at Aircraft Spruce site at https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/05-03621 Installation Instructions.pdf . They also recommend Peerco 321 for adhesive removal. Will be giving it a try in the very near future.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

My cement clear is two part from G.E.

We sell 2oz bottles with catalyst for 57.50 in boxes of 24.

all current aircraft you will notice grey color per the spec .

i also mfg to sample gaskets in various thickness and color.

ext trim seals for paint shops per customer color .

We are the only mfg in low production that will mfg to customers sample .

[dkkim73]

@LANCECASPER I just re-read your installation story on the Bravo. The aero accessories site only lists earlier Mooney models, through the K. Did you use that version, or was there a separate offering for Bravos and Acclaims at that time? 

No immediate need but this sounds like a nice upgrade.