Beware the lowly Cub

[A64Pilot]

They bite.

Last Thursday a young guy as in late teens was hand propping his Cub. I assume his Cub and I brought up his age because most times it’s old men with Cubs, seems that way anyway.

But anyway he had one wheel chocked and the Cub got away from him, and the old 182 paid the price. Crystal River Fl.

Not a Mooney, and I don’t have any idea how you can keep this kind of exceedingly rare event from happening to you, but it seems lately there have been several taxiing into other aircraft and other very improbable accidents? 

 

 

[Ragsf15e]

19 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

They bite.

Last Thursday a young guy as in late teens was hand propping his Cub. I assume his Cub and I brought up his age because most times it’s old men with Cubs, seems that way anyway.

But anyway he had one wheel chocked and the Cub got away from him, and the old 182 paid the price. Crystal River Fl.

Not a Mooney, and I don’t have any idea how you can keep this kind of exceedingly rare event from happening to you, but it seems lately there have been several taxiing into other aircraft and other very improbable accidents? 

 

 

Thank goodness the kid and the cub are OK!

[A64Pilot]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

Thank goodness the kid and the cub are OK!

I was driving by the airport and saw an ambulance and fire truck at the FBO. However no one was hurt? No fuel spill etc. I didn’t stop, saw the 182 this morning on our breakfast run. Line kid told me the story of what happened.

Cub got it about as bad as the 182, both got prop strikes, damaged wings and required prop strike inspections and condemned props I’m sure.

[Ragsf15e]

1 minute ago, A64Pilot said:

I was driving by the airport and saw an ambulance and fire truck at the FBO. However no one was hurt? No fuel spill etc. I didn’t stop, saw the 182 this morning on our breakfast run. Line kid told me the story of what happened.

Cub got it about as bad as the 182, both got prop strikes, damaged wings and required prop strike inspections and condemned props I’m sure.

It can happen to anyone. Didn’t Martha Lunken hit a 182 as well?

[A64Pilot]

I don’t know who she is. I’ve hand propped aircraft of course but have an ingrained fear of doing so. I’ve only done it with both wings tied down myself, and chocked.

Always seemed dangerous to me, largely from the idea of the prop eating me.

I’m an old helicopter pilot, the tail rotor has always made me nervous too. When I was in flight school an instructor walked into one at night. 

I didn’t see it but heard it was bad, wasn’t much left above the waist.

Neighbor had her Hatz Biplane get away from her, pulled the dog tie down out of the ground. Luckily a ditch stopped it because it was headed for her neighbors house, totaled the Hatz.

[Pinecone]

You can prop a Cub from behind the prop, so your hand is on the throttle.  That would help.

If I had a plane that needed hand propping, I would put in a glider hook.  That would provide a tail tie down until you got running and in the plane.

[Ragsf15e]

6 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I don’t know who she is. I’ve hand propped aircraft of course but have an ingrained fear of doing so. I’ve only done it with both wings tied down myself, and chocked.

Always seemed dangerous to me, largely from the idea of the prop eating me.

I’m an old helicopter pilot, the tail rotor has always made me nervous too. When I was in flight school an instructor walked into one at night. 

I didn’t see it but heard it was bad, wasn’t much left above the waist.

Neighbor had her Hatz Biplane get away from her, pulled the dog tie down out of the ground. Luckily a ditch stopped it because it was headed for her neighbors house, totaled the Hatz.

She’s a little old spitfire aviatrix who’s been flying for 50 or 60 years and writes for Flying mag when she’s not suspended for doing crazy stuff. Hilarious lady. Try her book, i bet you’ll love it.  She’s a taildragger fan.

https://www.amazon.com/Unusual-Attitudes-obsessions-confessions-pilot/dp/0983072957

[Shadrach]

Why not chock both wheels? Rope is cheap. Having an extra long piece for the left chock makes it easy to pull without leaving the right side of the plane. I realize lots of folks chock just the right wheel. But if you miss set the throttle, the plane is going to pivot around and jump a single chock.

I love Martha Lunken’s writing. However it is clear that she came up in a different era of aviation. She has had some incidents that have left me thinking that she’s exercising the kind of decision making that would have been mainstream in say, 1971. 

[A64Pilot]

11 hours ago, Pinecone said:

You can prop a Cub from behind the prop, so your hand is on the throttle.  That would help.

If I had a plane that needed hand propping, I would put in a glider hook.  That would provide a tail tie down until you got running and in the plane.

Years ago when I did my seaplane rating Brown’s hand props from behind, because they are float planes and that’s about the only way, stand on the right float.

Students aren’t allowed to hand prop

Neighbor has a glider hook on his Baby Ace, but it’s an Experimental, it may not be as easy to put one on a Cub, but maybe as it’s a safety issue you might could, because there may not be an STC for a 65 HP Cub

Dr Ralph Kimberlin my fixed wing test pilot mentor has an airplane with an STC that uses a Dewalt drill for a starter, looks Rube Goldberg, but it works 

[47U]

15 hours ago, Pinecone said:

If I had a plane that needed hand propping, I would put in a glider hook.  That would provide a tail tie down until you got running and in the plane.

There was as Piper Pacer with a glider hook two hangar rows over from me… looks pretty simple.

[Hank]

5 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Years ago when I did my seaplane rating Brown’s hand props from behind, because they are float planes and that’s about the only way, stand on the right float.

I have several friends who hand-prop their Champs from behind, with their left hand on the throttle.

[Shadrach]

35 minutes ago, Hank said:

I have several friends who hand-prop their Champs from behind, with their left hand on the throttle.

Yup and yet…they still get away sometimes.

[GeeBee]

The single biggest factor besides correct technique of the hand propper,  is a good set of magnetos and spark plugs. So often I have seen people struggle with a hand prop because of weak spark which results in struggles with fuel, which then results in unintended RPMs and a resulting runaway. J-3s with A-C mags seem especially susceptible because so few are correctly maintained because of a paucity of skilled maintenance people on those units.

I used to be very good at hand propping even bringing some 6 bangers to life. No more. I am not current and no longer proficient.

I took quite a beating a while back on SuperCub.org because I challenged the conventional wisdom there that everyone should be able to hand prop their airplane. There is not reason to do this if a starter is available for several reasons. One, if it is starter equipped it is unlikely the person involved is proficient and current, both required for a safe start. As I pointed out, a dead battery for starter is not an excuse in the world of overnight freight. Some Alaska types said, "What if I am on a glacier!" Answer: Have someone fly you up a battery or starter. Hand propping when you are not current or proficient on an snow or ice covered surface is a really bad idea. Bottom line, like texting while driving...it can wait.

A while back at KUCY I saw a 172 after several failed start attempts ending with a dead battery attempt a hand prop. The technique was so bad including leaning into the swing, I finally had to walk over and suggest they stop before someone got killed. I rarely do something like that, but I decided it was so bad that if the prop caught, there would be blood.

[Shadrach]

42 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

The single biggest factor besides correct technique of the hand propper,  is a good set of magnetos and spark plugs. So often I have seen people struggle with a hand prop because of weak spark which results in struggles with fuel, which then results in unintended RPMs and a resulting runaway. J-3s with A-C mags seem especially susceptible because so few are correctly maintained because of a paucity of skilled maintenance people on those units.

I used to be very good at hand propping even bringing some 6 bangers to life. No more. I am not current and no longer proficient.

I took quite a beating a while back on SuperCub.org because I challenged the conventional wisdom there that everyone should be able to hand prop their airplane. There is not reason to do this if a starter is available for several reasons. One, if it is starter equipped it is unlikely the person involved is proficient and current, both required for a safe start. As I pointed out, a dead battery for starter is not an excuse in the world of overnight freight. Some Alaska types said, "What if I am on a glacier!" Answer: Have someone fly you up a battery or starter. Hand propping when you are not current or proficient on an snow or ice covered surface is a really bad idea. Bottom line, like texting while driving...it can wait.

A while back at KUCY I saw a 172 after several failed start attempts ending with a dead battery attempt a hand prop. The technique was so bad including leaning into the swing, I finally had to walk over and suggest they stop before someone got killed. I rarely do something like that, but I decided it was so bad that if the prop caught, there would be blood.

Most nose wheel aircraft are poorly configured for hand propping both in terms of prop index to compression stroke and the fact that engine sits lower when on a nose wheel. I once watched an old timer hand prop a twin Comanche in front of a restaurant. It looked so bad that I asked him to stop. He grumbled something like “thank you but mind your own business”. He got it started in two pulls, got in, started the second engine and departed. I thought for sure he was going to stumble right into the prop arc.

 

[GeeBee]

10 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Most nose wheel aircraft are poorly configured for hand propping both in terms of prop index to compression stroke and the fact that engine sits lower when on a nose wheel. I once watched an old timer hand prop a twin Comanche in front of a restaurant. It looked so bad that I asked him to stop. He grumbled something like “thank you but mind your own business”. He got it started in two pulls, got in, started the second engine and departed. I thought for sure he was going to stumble right into the prop arc.

 

Pure luck.

[EricJ]

Hand prop accidents do seem to be mostly from just not having the aircraft adequately chocked or otherwise secured, and it happens so often that it amazes me how people seem to keep repeating that mistake.    There was the Cirrus a few years ago that zoomed off into the side of a hangar after the non-pilot passenger jumped out of it mid-high-speed taxi.    And there's the ancient FAA safety movie that we used to all have to watch: