Mountain West- M20J or M20K?

[dzeleski]

6 hours ago, crustymuffin said:

I appreciate everyone’s insight, especially from you guys living in/near mountainous terrain and the impact on your ops as both NA and turbo. I’m leaning quite a bit toward turbo. What do you all think the difference in operating cost is? I’ve seen people say “marginal” and “not much” which is subjective, but I also realize quantifying it is difficult. So with that said, what’s your best guess as to the maintenance cost increase over the J? In figuring the rough math with an increase of $15 per hour I could actually get the hourly cost in a given year down to comparable with the J, accounting for the increase in flying the additional capability affords us. If possible, 231 vs 252 is appreciated.

When you are used to climbing at SL in a J at 800-1200 feet per minute and you get out west and your take off climb rate is 200 fpm its not ideal. Ive described it as marginal before because even modest down drafts in the mountains cause more stress then I prefer when flying. I can easily see how people kill themselves in conditions like that.

Will the J do it? Yep, and itll probably do a decent job outside of the summer months as well, but for me it was too close to the edge of its performance window. Inside of summer I wouldnt really consider doing it on a regular basis.

If I moved out west I would immediately sell my J and get something with a turbo, or at least a 6 cylinder.

[Utah20Gflyer]

6 hours ago, crustymuffin said:

This all makes sense, TKS and O2 are on the table for us, practically required if we spring for the turbo. I’m still in SLC quite a bit and would you like to at least sit in a Mooney, and it’s been a few years. Any chance I could swing by TVY? No worries if it’s too much between strangers on the internet!

You are welcome to come out to KTVY and take a look at my plane,  it’s a mid body like the J and K so it will give you a feel for the cabin size.  I fly most Saturdays weather permitting.  Private message me with possible dates and we can see what might work for our schedules.   

[Z W]

When you need the turbo and O2 to clear a mountain pass in a downdraft, climb through or above clouds in the freeze levels, takeoff at max gross from a high and hot runway, or climb above a layer of popcorn clouds and turbulence into smooth clear air, I doubt you'll be crunching the numbers on how much it cost you that year. 

When you climb up high in the teens to catch a 50+ knot tailwind headed east or south, you'll probably just be smiling.  Somehow I usually have headwinds both ways, but sometimes it does work out.

I'd say most years it requires no extra maintenance cost.  Some years, a couple thousand dollars.  When the turbo itself needs overhauled, it'll be more maybe.  I did have to buy a new oxygen bottle last year, because the old one was timed out, for around $4,000.00.  But the new one is good for another 12 years I believe.

[Will.iam]

You got to pay to play how much is a question of what level jet turboprop piston and in that level there is speed efficiency and cost pick any two of the three as all three doesn’t exist. 

[Pinecone]

23 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Yea tried that once but she got freaky when she saw me putting my O2 on. 

Climb faster and she will be asleep before she notices.

 

[Pinecone]

14 hours ago, Z W said:

When you climb up high in the teens to catch a 50+ knot tailwind headed east or south, you'll probably just be smiling.  Somehow I usually have headwinds both ways, but sometimes it does work out.

Last year, leaving Mooney Max, I visited a friend in Denver.  Came home at 17,000 and hit 229 GS at one point.  Did 1333 miles in 7 hours flying time.  SWEET.

And a late morning take off, on a warm day (high 75), from KBJC was a non-event.  DA was around 8000+ feet.

 

[midlifeflyer]

9 hours ago, Pinecone said:

And a late morning take off, on a warm day (high 75), from KBJC was a non-event.  DA was around 8000+ feet.

Here’s the issue. That can be done in a 150/160 HP 172 or Cherokee. Locals do it with C150s. BTDT. Like them or an M20C, it’s going to be fine at low flatland D-Alts like that. If the mission includes consistent mountain flight capability in all seasons, I’d be looking for more HP or turbocharging.

As usual, it’s all about the mission.

 

[PeteMc]

10 hours ago, Pinecone said:

And a late morning take off, on a warm day (high 75), from KBJC was a non-event.  DA was around 8000+ feet.

Yea, and then there's when you depart KBJC in Oct to the NE and get vectored every which way and kept down low.  Then by the time they get you over to the west side of the airport and eventually give you a climb, those MOUNTAINS are getting really close.  Had I not had a Trubo I never would have made the climb. 

I came close to telling ATC I had to turn, but being Oct it all worked out.  Had we been in IMC and I was not climbing way harder than a standard climb, I sure hope ATC would have turned us. 

So I'm very much pro Turbo in the west if you given the option.  

[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

Yea, and then there's when you depart KBJC in Oct to the NE and get vectored every which way and kept down low.  Then by the time they get you over to the west side of the airport and eventually give you a climb, those MOUNTAINS are getting really close.  Had I not had a Trubo I never would have made the climb. 

I came close to telling ATC I had to turn, but being Oct it all worked out.  Had we been in IMC and I was not climbing way harder than a standard climb, I sure hope ATC would have turned us. 

So I'm very much pro Turbo in the west if you given the option.  

You don't live right.

My clearance was Plains 1 Depature, Akron transition, Direct.  

 

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Akron transition

Flatlander!  

(We won't talk about how I lived basically AT sea level for years!) 

 

[Pinecone]

Wasn't my request, I filed Direct.