Tanis Cabin/ Avionics Pre-Heater?

[William Munney]

So far, so good with the Hornet 45.  Sitting in the airplane on its own for about a month.  A noticeable difference .  Keeping $$$ of avionics from deep freezing.

[MIm20c]

We’ve been using the Honeywell 360 heaters for over 15 year.  Set on low and turns on a few hours before flight. This allows all the avionics, seats, etc to get completely warm.  Makes the flight more enjoyable for passengers and the pilot. Heater is cool to the touch and very stable.  LINK

[blaine beaven]

3 hours ago, William Munney said:

So far, so good with the Hornet 45.  Sitting in the airplane on its own for about a month.  A noticeable difference .  Keeping $$$ of avionics from deep freezing.

Does that have an impact on the service life of those avionics? I can understand not starting them cold, but what is the damage if they sit in -30c for a week, then you warm them up to +15C before you go flying? 

[Pinecone]

8 hours ago, blaine beaven said:

Does that have an impact on the service life of those avionics? I can understand not starting them cold, but what is the damage if they sit in -30c for a week, then you warm them up to +15C before you go flying? 

Why would there be any more damage that flying them and having them warm up?

Or are you saying one needs a heater hangar to keep everything warm all the time??

[blaine beaven]

@Pinecone I’m asking the question because the OP said:

12 hours ago, William Munney said:

Keeping $$$ of avionics from deep freezing.

And I’m curious if that is actually a problem with these avionics - do they get damaged from sitting in the cold. The OP seems to suggest that he is keeping his heated all the time to prevent damage, and I am wondering if that is necessary. 

[William Munney]

7 hours ago, blaine beaven said:

@Pinecone I’m asking the question because the OP said:

And I’m curious if that is actually a problem with these avionics - do they get damaged from sitting in the cold. The OP seems to suggest that he is keeping his heated all the time to prevent damage, and I am wondering if that is necessary. 

I am in the upper Midwest.  So, the avionics might see temps as low as -25F.  It is my belief only that a warmer, drier cabin is better for the avionics.  I am going from previous experience with other electronics and other electronics in airplanes…….NOT on any advice from Garmin.  I’m going to contact them though and see what they say.

Mine has a custom thermostat.  It does not get hot to the touch and keeps the cabin between 40-46f.  You could also plug it in a few hours before you fly but my idea was to keep the cabin out of the harsh harsh cold.

[larryb]

For electronics the colder the better as long as it is not colder than the design spec. Computer chips close the timing spec in a defined temp range. Outside this range the design may not work. Other than this it does not matter. The equipment spec will tell you what it was designed and tested to.

Spinning gyros don’t like very cold environment.

[Danb]

On 11/29/2023 at 3:04 AM, M20F-1968 said:

I bought two cabin heaters made for boats which are sold by West Marine.  Bought one for $70 and one for $28.  The links to West Marine are here:

 https://www.westmarine.com/west-marine-portable-cabin-heater-7867500.html

https://www.westmarine.com/caframo-hot-shot-portable-ceramic-cabin-heater-110v-19633403.html

The first one (Grey) is made very well, steel case, has legs which raise in from the floor.  The case does not get warm.  The legs raise in sufficiently so it can sit in the hat rack with the air outlet aimed over the rolled raised edge of the hat rack. It does not have a ground wire on the cord.

The other (black) has a plastic case, can sit on the floor in front of the co-pilot's seat, has a ground wire, the case does not get warm, and has a safety switch in the bottom.

For the prices I paid, I will keep them but am still contemplating the safety of using them, even if it is just for 30 minutes during preflight.  It is overkill because I have a heated hanger as well (but my propane heater currently needs replacing).  I purchased a new Modine 150,000 heater which will be installed next week.  

What do you all think about these cabin heaters?

John Breda

You’ll love the Modine it will heat the hanger quite fast. I leave mine on 45* and if I’m flying the next morning I’ll set it at 58* never have to sit in a cold seat. 

[M20F-1968]

I purchased a 150,000 BTU propane heater to replace my 25-year-old one.  The HVAC installers hit the unit heater with a hydraulic aerial lift,  claimed they only damaged the exterior side panel, and after a month of arguing the Modine company advised them the the heater is now junk.  Have been arguing for a month now to get them to replace the heater with new.  Airplane ownership offers a wealth of challenges.  Incompetent, and less than honorable companies abound in today's society.

John Breda

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

I purchased a 150,000 BTU propane heater to replace my 25-year-old one.  The HVAC installers hit the unit heater with a hydraulic aerial lift,  claimed they only damaged the exterior side panel, and after a month of arguing the Modine company advised them the the heater is now junk.  Have been arguing for a month now to get them to replace the heater with new.  Airplane ownership offers a wealth of challenges.  Incompetent, and less than honorable companies abound in today's society.

John Breda

How big is your propane tank?

[aviatoreb]

I used to worry about preheating my airplane when I was relying on spinning gyro instruments.  Now that I am (almost) entirely electric-AHARS devices - I am not so worried about starting the panel from cold.  I do still have one backup electric spinning gyro attitude indicator and when it starts to die - I will replace it too with something ahars.  So I dont preheat my cabin anymore - I dont fly below 0F so no starts anyway at the coldest we can get around here - -20 or -30f - (engine is preheated!!!) and its fine.  The pilot can wait for the cabin to warm up as far as comfort is involved.

[EricJ]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:26 AM, blaine beaven said:

@Pinecone I’m asking the question because the OP said:

And I’m curious if that is actually a problem with these avionics - do they get damaged from sitting in the cold. The OP seems to suggest that he is keeping his heated all the time to prevent damage, and I am wondering if that is necessary. 

Probably not much.   The operating manuals should say if there are storage temperature limitations, but most things are designed to survive desert summers and arctic winters without coming apart, so I'd be surprised if it was ever an issue in the lower 48.   Displays are often the most sensitive to cold, but I've not heard of many issues.   A friend had the glass on his G5 display crack in the heat here, or at least that might be what caused it, but I seldom hear of issues related to storage temperatures.

 

[ArrowBerry]

Our solution. To the question regarding whether it makes a difference to preheat the cabin if you let out all that heat as soon you open the door--yes. I think so. It may release the warm air thats in the cabin but the avionics, cabin furnishings, etc all have residual heat that lasts longer than the amount of time it takes for you to do a walk around and get strapped in. 

When you turn on the avionics master the screens are all bright and ready, the throttle/prop/mixture controls are not stiff, and your plastic cabin furnishings are not so cold and brittle that they crack when you touch them. 

Although, we rarely fly when it gets really cold. Not worth the risk of breaking something, or surviving an engine out just to freeze to death.

Edited January 14, 2024 by ArrowBerry

[PeteMc]

3 minutes ago, ArrowBerry said:

To the question regarding whether it makes a difference to preheat the cabin if you let out all that heat as soon you open the door--yes.

Hmmm...  I see you saying "yes" then I see you giving what I think it the proper response of NO.  Letting all the warm air out of the cabin is not a problem for the Avionics, etc. *IF* the cabin is warmed up long enough to transfer the heat into the Avionics and other parts of the cabin.  It will not cool off that quickly when the warm air is released as the thermal transfer takes a while (warming and cooling).

 

[ArrowBerry]

33 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Hmmm...  I see you saying "yes" then I see you giving what I think it the proper response of NO.  Letting all the warm air out of the cabin is not a problem for the Avionics, etc. *IF* the cabin is warmed up long enough to transfer the heat into the Avionics and other parts of the cabin.  It will not cool off that quickly when the warm air is released as the thermal transfer takes a while (warming and cooling).

 

Sorry that could have been clearer, I said "yes" it does make a difference in the cabin even if you don't feel it immediately when you sit down after having the door open.

We run our buddy heater in the cabin for about an hour before we show up to the airport. Plus, even being in an unheated hangar nullifies the effect of wind and other reasons the heat might get blown away. The forced air heat directed towards the front seems to work good.

Edited January 14, 2024 by ArrowBerry