Am I using the correct equipment suffix code?

**Jim Peace** · July 21, 2023

I have been using /G but reading some documents I am not sure if I should be using /R.

I have a GTN 650 paired with 2 G5's and a GTX345 transponder for ADS in and out.

I have no DME installed in the aircraft. I do have ILS and VOR through the GTN....

What suffix would you use?

**Vance Harral** · July 21, 2023

For that equipment, the appropriate ICAO equipment codes would be "B, G, R, S, Y". In addition, your Surveillance code would be "B2, C, U2", and your PBN information would be "B2, C2, D2, O2, S1".

Yes, this is stupid. No, ATC doesn't care. There isn't going to be any difference in safety or operational handling in the United States if you just use "G".

**PT20J** · July 21, 2023

Y is 8.33 kHz spacing which I think is only used in Europe.

According to Garmin, the surveillance codes for a GTX 345 are E B2

The PBN codes for the GTN are in the AFMS

**Jim Peace** · July 21, 2023

Okay....clear as mud....I will just keep on using /G

PeteMc · July 22, 2023

6 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

or that equipment, the appropriate ICAO equipment codes would be "B, G, R, S, Y". In addition, your Surveillance code would be "B2, C, U2", and your PBN information would be "B2, C2, D2, O2, S1".

Curious if you sure about those codes? (Source?) Granted, I do not have the same gear as Jim and I got into this when I first got my panel upgrade, but have pretty much forgotten everything my Avionics guy and Garmin told me when I was figuring out what to plug in.

But for my Aspen, GTN, GTX345D (also GNC355) they had me put in:

FAA: G
ICAO: B G R S Z (Y = 8.33KHz Channel Spacing which is possible, but not standard on the GTN)
Surveillance: B2 E U2 (C = Basic A & C only)
PBN: B2 C2 D2 O2 S2 (S1 = No Baro, possible if the Baro input was not connected)

**PT20J** · July 22, 2023

14 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Curious if you sure about those codes? (Source?) Granted, I do not have the same gear as Jim and I got into this when I first got my panel upgrade, but have pretty much forgotten everything my Avionics guy and Garmin told me when I was figuring out what to plug in.

But for my Aspen, GTN, GTX345D (also GNC355) they had me put in:

FAA: G
ICAO: B G R S Z (Y = 8.33KHz Channel Spacing which is possible, but not standard on the GTN)
Surveillance: B2 E U2 (C = Basic A & C only)
PBN: B2 C2 D2 O2 S2 (S1 = No Baro, possible if the Baro input was not connected)

Z is "other equipment" and you are supposed to specify what it is in field 18. I don't think you need that.

Several sources, including Garmin support, list the correct surveillance codes for the GTX 345(D) as B2 E.

I believe that the PBN codes are correct.

PeteMc · July 22, 2023

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

Z is "other equipment" and you are supposed to specify what it is in field 18. I don't think you need that.

Several sources, including Garmin support, list the correct surveillance codes for the GTX 345(D) as B2 E.

I believe that the PBN codes are correct.

Okay... So are you saying my codes are correct or not?

I looked at my "ForeFlight" info and I don't see a Field 18... So I guess I need to do more research on this, but I'm still unclear if I entered it correctly (per the installer & Gamin) or if I just added it by mistake.

**0TreeLemur** · July 22, 2023

Our J has an Avidyne 540 (WAAS GPS, ILS), KX155 w/o GS, and a Avidyne 340 Mode S extended squitter ADS-B out transponder, plus a Stratus for ADS-B in. Sorry fellas, no big G.

Last week I played this game with Fort Worth Radio. It had been over a year since I filed IFR in the air. Very frustrating. After I returned, I found an Avidyne guide that told me that for this feature set my aircraft has:

Equipment: BGRS

Surveillance: B2, E

PBN: B2, C2, D2, O2, S1

**Pinecone** · July 22, 2023

At Mooney Max, Gary (the guy in the pink shirt), did reviews of FF codes.

I have an Aspen 1000, G-5, GTN-650Xi, GTX-345.

FAA - G

ICAO - B, G, R, S, Z Also Y, but I guess that is because it IS possible.

ICAO SUrveillance - B2, E

PBN - B2, C2D2, O2, S1 (but probably should be S2)

Other - CODE A260D3, NAV RNVD1E2A1, PER B

In ForeFlight there is no /R for FAA.

**PT20J** · July 22, 2023

9 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Okay... So are you saying my codes are correct or not?

I looked at my "ForeFlight" info and I don't see a Field 18... So I guess I need to do more research on this, but I'm still unclear if I entered it correctly (per the installer & Gamin) or if I just added it by mistake.

Field 18 on the ICAO flight plan is populated by the Other Information field in ForeFlight. Z would be specified if you had some equipment for which there is not a predefined letter code and it would be described in field 18.

This stuff is confusing. I’ve changed mine about a half a dozen times as I learned more. Currently for my GTN 650Xi, GTX 345 I have:

FAA - G

ICAO Equipment - B G R S

ICAO Surveillance - B2 E

ICAO PBN - B2 C2 D2 O2 S1

Other - CODE A3F7BD

**PT20J** · July 22, 2023

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

NAV RNVD1E2A1, PER B

Interesting NAV code. Not sure what it means. Does Per B refer to the LPV equipment code? D1 requires INS and DME-DME as well as GPS, I think. E2 is for ACARS data link and A1 requires a LOA according to the ForeFlight ICAO Filing Quick Reference.

Ragsf15e · July 22, 2023

Well this discussion makes it all perfectly clear!

**PT20J** · July 22, 2023

48 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Well this discussion makes it all perfectly clear!

The problem is that there is a gap between the ICAO definitions and the information the equipment manufacturers provide that makes it difficult to figure out what is correct for a particular installation.

Currently, in the US it doesn’t seem to matter much. Someday though, it probably will. I think the hitch would be filing routes or procedures that require certain PBN capabilities. Without the corresponding codes in the flight plan, the route might be rejected. Computers are good at checking details like that. According to ForeFlight, RNAV SID/STARS are currently rejected if you don’t include D2.

Skip

Ragsf15e · July 22, 2023

I think I’m close with this though, right?

Gns430w, gtx 345.

IMG_5677.png.700bead4845f7f6fd9ab073b680f02c7.png

**PT20J** · July 22, 2023

20 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I think I’m close with this though, right?

Gns430w, gtx 345.

I believe that the 430W has the same PBN capabilities as the GTN. Therefore I think you can include O2 (RNP 1) and S1 (RNP approach). I don't think B2 is necessary as I think that is used for oceanic routes and may require approval.

For the equipment, G (GNSS), R (PBN), S (VOR, VHF Comm, ILS) are correct. I believe you should include B (LPV) and delete Y (8.33 kHz comm spacing).

kortopates · July 22, 2023

Yes on B2, to qualify you have to have two GPS’s for oceanic.

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PeteMc · July 22, 2023

6 hours ago, PT20J said:

Field 18 on the ICAO flight plan is populated by the Other Information field in ForeFlight.

So in the Other I have:

Code: A20DA1
NAV: SBAS
PER: A
SUR: 282B 260B

Now I have to go do some research to figure out why we put those in.

**Pinecone** · July 23, 2023

22 hours ago, PT20J said:

Interesting NAV code. Not sure what it means. Does Per B refer to the LPV equipment code? D1 requires INS and DME-DME as well as GPS, I think. E2 is for ACARS data link and A1 requires a LOA according to the ForeFlight ICAO Filing Quick Reference.

I m not sure where that comes from. I can't find a reference for those codes.

These are under OTHER in Fore Flight.

kortopates · July 23, 2023

I m not sure where that comes from. I can't find a reference for those codes.
These are under OTHER in Fore Flight.

PER B is saying you will only take cat b minimums. i would change that unless you truly are unwilling to circle less than above 90 kts. I always fly the approach at 100-110 kts but slow to 90 leveling off to circle and therefore can stick to cat a minimums.

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**PT20J** · July 23, 2023

I was recently in Alaska where they still have real Flight Service Stations. At both Northway and Talkeetna, I filed flight plans in person with the FSS specialist. They didn't understand all the codes either. Their computer entry screen has a verify function and it took several tries to get the program to accept everything so that they could file it. One interesting thing is that the program was picky about the order of the codes. I think it wouldn't accept B2 E and it had to be E B2 for surveillance. The Talkeetna specialist said that most people just file with ForeFlight. I filed a VFR flight plan via radio with a Canadian FIC and they didn't care about the ICAO codes.

One thing that is interesting to do with Foreflight is to click the Proceed to File button and in the upper right corner of the File window you can export the ICAO form and look how ForeFlight takes your aircraft info and the flight info and fills out the form.

Skip

**Pinecone** · July 23, 2023

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

PER B is saying you will only take cat b minimums. i would change that unless you truly are unwilling to circle less than above 90 kts. I always fly the approach at 100-110 kts but slow to 90 leveling off to circle and therefore can stick to cat a minimums.

Where do I find what those things under Other are and what they mean?

The others, I can find the documentation.

**PT20J** · July 24, 2023

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Where do I find what those things under Other are and what they mean?

The others, I can find the documentation.

Try this https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/FAA FPL Quick Reference Brochure (2022-09-15).pdf

It appears I should add SUR/ 260B to mine. I deleted B2. Every time I review this, I end up changing something.

**0TreeLemur** · July 24, 2023

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Try this https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/FAA FPL Quick Reference Brochure (2022-09-15).pdf

It appears I should add SUR/ 260B to mine. I deleted B2. Every time I review this, I end up changing something.

Common solution to an optimization problem in an information poor, flat solution space...

**jamesm** · July 24, 2023

Awe this is what happens the IRS meets ICAO meets politicians in destroying a perfect good flight plan form. Creating a monstrosity new form. the good form was simple and has been around for years easy and straightforward. It did needed some minor modifications to good old flight plan form. I am pretty sure that LORAN , ADF, life raft are rarely used in 99% of GA in the US. I am pretty sure they aren’t making a comeback anytime soon. I Could be wrong though. Why they were at destroying good format why throw in AN beacon navigation and if you 8 track tape players for inflight entertainment system.

**Pinecone** · July 24, 2023

9 hours ago, PT20J said:

Try this https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/FAA FPL Quick Reference Brochure (2022-09-15).pdf

It appears I should add SUR/ 260B to mine. I deleted B2. Every time I review this, I end up changing something.

OK, change the PER to A.

Not sure of the codes in the NAV entry.

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Am I using the correct equipment suffix code?

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