Tales from a first time plane owner

[Dickard]

"Is there anybody going to listen to my story, all about the girl who came to stay?"

I used to own a classic Ferrari.  The joke when I was shopping for it was that the purchase price was only the price of admission.  The same is true for aircraft ownership.  BIG TIME!

I've only owned the plane for a year and a half.  A 1999 M20M Bravo.  A Ferrari with wings is what I told my wife.  Plane Ownership: The Cliff's Notes version - What a nightmare.  Shoddy maintenance from multiple mechanics has now resulted in exhaust pipe gasket failure in flight, incorrect rudder trim indication resulting in a runway excursion, a lower cowling that's basically a collector of loose bolts, two emergency landings (the second with complete engine failure during my flare), an aborted take off due to engine failure as I applied full throttle.  Now the plane sits 90 miles from home in La Junta, Colorado.  I managed to secure a hangar there for $575/month, as I continue to pay for my empty hangar at KCOS for $700/month.  Just. Shoot. Me.

I was hoping to go to MooneyMAX this year. That didn't happen due to the recent testing of my emergency procedures skills.  I was also planning to see if Don Maxwell Aviation would do my annual next year and give the plane a thorough inspection.  I finally just called them yesterday and Don answered the phone.  I told him the whole story and he said he'd be glad to talk with my current A&P to see if they could figure out what's going on.  I told Don that I had been planning to bring my plane to him since I was born in Longview, Texas, and grew up in nearby Kilgore. I told him my dad was back home in Kilgore after having been gone for 50 years.  After I told him my name, he asked my dad's name.  Turns out they grew up together.  He said, "When we get off the phone, you call your daddy and tell him that Don Paul said hello."  Yessir.  I'm a third generation Texan who left Texas 23 years ago to spend 12 years in Alabama and now 11 years in Colorado.  That phone call made me home sick.

[Ragsf15e]

13 minutes ago, Dickard said:

"Is there anybody going to listen to my story, all about the girl who came to stay?"

I used to own a classic Ferrari.  The joke when I was shopping for it was that the purchase price was only the price of admission.  The same is true for aircraft ownership.  BIG TIME!

I've only owned the plane for a year and a half.  A 1999 M20M Bravo.  A Ferrari with wings is what I told my wife.  Plane Ownership: The Cliff's Notes version - What a nightmare.  Shoddy maintenance from multiple mechanics has now resulted in exhaust pipe gasket failure in flight, incorrect rudder trim indication resulting in a runway excursion, a lower cowling that's basically a collector of loose bolts, two emergency landings (the second with complete engine failure during my flare), an aborted take off due to engine failure as I applied full throttle.  Now the plane sits 90 miles from home in La Junta, Colorado.  I managed to secure a hangar there for $575/month, as I continue to pay for my empty hangar at KCOS for $700/month.  Just. Shoot. Me.

I was hoping to go to MooneyMAX this year. That didn't happen due to the recent testing of my emergency procedures skills.  I was also planning to see if Don Maxwell Aviation would do my annual next year and give the plane a thorough inspection.  I finally just called them yesterday and Don answered the phone.  I told him the whole story and he said he'd be glad to talk with my current A&P to see if they could figure out what's going on.  I told Don that I had been planning to bring my plane to him since I was born in Longview, Texas, and grew up in nearby Kilgore. I told him my dad was back home in Kilgore after having been gone for 50 years.  After I told him my name, he asked my dad's name.  Turns out they grew up together.  He said, "When we get off the phone, you call your daddy and tell him that Don Paul said hello."  Yessir.  I'm a third generation Texan who left Texas 23 years ago to spend 12 years in Alabama and now 11 years in Colorado.  That phone call made me home sick.

Once you “get the kinks” worked out, it gets much better.  Don is a great person and his shop is a great place to go.

[EricJ]

These sorts of issues are fairly common initiation ritual stuff for GA airplane ownership.    Many of us have similar stories.

Sorry it's stuck AOG away from home, but being able to get it in a hangar for the duration is a good thing.

Also, definitely cool to have an 'in' with Maxwells.   That's pretty cool.

[Mcstealth]

Deferred maintenance. I'm sorry for your troubles. We are rooting for you. 

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Dickard said:

"What a nightmare.  Shoddy maintenance from multiple mechanics has now resulted in exhaust pipe gasket failure in flight, incorrect rudder trim indication resulting in a runway excursion, a lower cowling that's basically a collector of loose bolts, two emergency landings (the second with complete engine failure during my flare), an aborted take off due to engine failure as I applied full throttle.  Now the plane sits 90 miles from home in La Junta, Colorado.  

With one runway excursion, 2 emergency landings (one engine out) and an engine out on take-off in a short 1-1/2 year period, you are lucky that you have not suffered more serious consequences.  It has to be a difficult conversation at home and with your insurance agent.  

Sorry to hear.

[Boilermonkey]

Been there with our M20M when we bought it.  We knew it was going to need work.  When the work wasn't done right the first time is when I lost heart (also engine out landing).  A year later and she is running well.

[rickseeman]

When I bought my O I had concerns about "deferred maintenance" and "did the mechanic know Mooneys". I had anxiety like we all do when buying a new-to-us machine. I knew the owner was "aging out" and hadn't flown it much in the last 10 years. Was he not worrying about maintenance either? The log book entries looked good, things like landing gear preload, deflection and torque.... it sounded like he knew his stuff. We still worry. The only good thing I knew was the owner bought it new, it was his baby, and he could afford to maintain it. And I knew he was finicky. When I bought a new Bonanza in 2001 for the company I worked for, whenever it needed anything, it got it. My feeling was, we paid a lot for this thing and we need to take care of it to protect our investment. I flew the O for 7 months (didn't really have any squawks) and took it to Don Maxwell for annual because I wanted experianced "Mooney eyes" looking at it. I figure he's one of the best Mooney shops in the world and Don and Paul are treasures to the Mooney community. Well, they didn't find any squawks to speak of either. (Thank God.) So now I sleep better at night. I am sorry the OP had so many problems. That's terrible. I guess I really need to thank the previous owner of the O and Houston Aviation Center for letting me have such a good 26 year old airplane. They took care of it and now I get to enjoy it. My thanks to both of you.

P.S. I bought a 685 Commander from a rich old guy in Palm Springs one time. He had bought it new. His view was, he valued money less than he valued his airplane being perfect. That's the kind of guy you want to buy an airplane from.

 

[GeeBee]

Today, I boarded my boat, open the fridge to get a water. Warm water. The fridge died. I said to my wife, need a new fridge. She said, "Do we really need it?" (We don't overnight anymore, our home is on the lake.) I said, "Planes, boats, houses,  expensive cars, never get behind on maintenance because it costs a fortune to catch up, we're ordering a new fridge.". 

[donkaye, MCFI]

2/10/2022   ORL-FPY-12J-CDH (Almost couldn't get the engine started there)-WDG-COS = 9.7 Hours.  Quite a  day!  Unusual electronic ignition.  Lucked out on the weather.  Next day we just got to do a few landings before the snow came a calling.  Sorry we couldn't do a full transition training.

From that flight I learned not to necessarily stop at an airport in the middle of nowhere just because they had cheap fuel.  If we couldn't 'have gotten the plane started...  

The Bravo is an amazing airplane.  That plane got us more than half way across the country going westbound in one day--in the middle of winter.

[Dickard]

12 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

With one runway excursion, 2 emergency landings (one engine out) and an engine out on take-off in a short 1-1/2 year period, you are lucky that you have not suffered more serious consequences.  It has to be a difficult conversation at home and with your insurance agent.  

Sorry to hear.

My wife hasn't been thrilled about the money aspect, but she's definitely much more negative about a plane trying to kill me.

[Smiles201]

I lived in La Junta for several months twenty six years ago. No maintenance on the field then, the town was surrounded by feed lots and a hanger was $60 a month. Eventually everything will be sorted out and you will help to keep the fleet going strong! 

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, Dickard said:

My wife hasn't been thrilled about the money aspect, but she's definitely much more negative about a plane trying to kill me.

Shhhhh, don't tell her the fact that it is always trying to kill you. That's what makes a pilot a "pilot".

[Fritz1]

Sorry to hear, sounds like the worst is behind you and things can only get better, I bough my Bravo 6 years ago from Jimmy Garrison with a 200h factory reman. Brian Kendrick did the pre-buy and turned into an annual immediately thereafter. The plane stayed with Brian in San Marcos for about 5 weeks thereafter and goes back there every second year for its annual. I have found a local mechanic that is very familiar with the turbo Lycoming engine. For anything that we can't figure out between the two of us I call Brian Kendrick in TX. I passed the A&P written in June and plan to take the practical in August or September. The Bravo needs 1-2 hours of work for every hour the prop turns, this means you fly for 10 h per month, somebody has to fix something for 10h per month. With that provision the airplane is very reliable. The weakest spot is the exhaust, at every 25h oil change it pays to check the turbo clamps and the weld in the Y-transition. Before every big trip I do a maintenance test flight around the pudding including an approach, I do the same every two weeks if the bird does not fly otherwise. In a typical year the bird flies 100-150h. Key to exhaust life is to keep TIT below 1600 dF, cylinders are better kept below 400 dF. The Maxwells will help you get the bird over the hump and there are good shops in Colorado as well.

[hubcap]

55 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

Sorry to hear, sounds like the worst is behind you and things can only get better, I bough my Bravo 6 years ago from Jimmy Garrison with a 200h factory reman. Brian Kendrick did the pre-buy and turned into an annual immediately thereafter. The plane stayed with Brian in San Marcos for about 5 weeks thereafter and goes back there every second year for its annual. I have found a local mechanic that is very familiar with the turbo Lycoming engine. For anything that we can't figure out between the two of us I call Brian Kendrick in TX. I passed the A&P written in June and plan to take the practical in August or September. The Bravo needs 1-2 hours of work for every hour the prop turns, this means you fly for 10 h per month, somebody has to fix something for 10h per month. With that provision the airplane is very reliable. The weakest spot is the exhaust, at every 25h oil change it pays to check the turbo clamps and the weld in the Y-transition. Before every big trip I do a maintenance test flight around the pudding including an approach, I do the same every two weeks if the bird does not fly otherwise. In a typical year the bird flies 100-150h. Key to exhaust life is to keep TIT below 1600 dF, cylinders are better kept below 400 dF. The Maxwells will help you get the bird over the hump and there are good shops in Colorado as well.

1 hour of maintenance for every hour of flight?

I fly Myrtle ~150 hrs / year with around 20 hours of maintenance, which includes oil changes and annual inspection. I keep her in the best possible condition and have had a 100% dispatch rate. 

I did not realize that Bravos were so maintenance intensive.

[Fritz1]

my experience in 6 years of ownership, bird flies 120h per year, needs at least that number of hours of work including annuals, you kick in an upgrade here and there and it gets more quickly, but I may be suffering from OCD (oppressive compulsive disorder), slowest mechanic on the planet

[Hank]

@Fritz1, you can't count upgrades as "required maintenance" be ause they are completely optional . . . . My C requires little between annuals other than oil changes, two hours max when I do it, including before and after laps around the pattern. 

But eight now, I need to work on the ceiling liner, it's coming down right over my head. That means before 0800, or wait until October. It's only 86, with Heat Index of 91, but it's still going up and the humidity is nice and high--I'll wait, got noone to impress!  

[donkaye, MCFI]

1 hour ago, Fritz1 said:

Sorry to hear, sounds like the worst is behind you and things can only get better, I bough my Bravo 6 years ago from Jimmy Garrison with a 200h factory reman. Brian Kendrick did the pre-buy and turned into an annual immediately thereafter. The plane stayed with Brian in San Marcos for about 5 weeks thereafter and goes back there every second year for its annual. I have found a local mechanic that is very familiar with the turbo Lycoming engine. For anything that we can't figure out between the two of us I call Brian Kendrick in TX. I passed the A&P written in June and plan to take the practical in August or September. The Bravo needs 1-2 hours of work for every hour the prop turns, this means you fly for 10 h per month, somebody has to fix something for 10h per month. With that provision the airplane is very reliable. The weakest spot is the exhaust, at every 25h oil change it pays to check the turbo clamps and the weld in the Y-transition. Before every big trip I do a maintenance test flight around the pudding including an approach, I do the same every two weeks if the bird does not fly otherwise. In a typical year the bird flies 100-150h. Key to exhaust life is to keep TIT below 1600 dF, cylinders are better kept below 400 dF. The Maxwells will help you get the bird over the hump and there are good shops in Colorado as well.

Boy do I disagree with your comments.  I have had my Bravo for 31 years and flown it over 4,100 hours and there is no way the maintenance is 1-2 hours for each hour flown.  If it were that much, I'd have gotten rid of it long ago.  And as Top Gun would attest, It gets everything it wants and then some.  I don't skimp on anything.

[redbaron1982]

I would recommend, if you haven´t done so already, to hire Savvy Maintenance service. They do not do maintenance, they assist you in troubleshooting, finding mechanics and handling the communication with them. And what's even better, and if you are going to be an owner involved in your aircraft maintenance (which you should be), you will learn a lot from them.

I know I will infuriate some of the fundamentalist of Don Maxwell, but there are many horror stories with his shop too. So no mechanic is perfect, much less a shop. I have had a very bad experience with Maxwell (a job that was estimated by Don himself to cost 15k and take 3 weeks ended up costing 35k and taking 10 months, without discussing with me any change of the estimate, I was kept in the dark until the moment they finished the work, when they produced an invoice more than 2x the original estimate).

Maybe as your dad is an old friend of him, then you're in the group of people that are given special treatment, but just don´t blindly trust any shop.

Edited July 16, 2023 by redbaron1982

[Fritz1]

on my Bravo average annual including fixes is typically about 60h, another 60h in between for incidentals, oil, sparkplugs, leaking brake cylinders, leaking turbo wastegate, occasional intermittent electrical, glow bulb here and there, worn chafe tape, lube rod ends washed out by tks fluid, trouble shooting avionics, adds up... so my Bravo sucks up at least 120h per year at 120 flight hours per year, any optional refurbishments or upgrades go on top of that, maybe there are things that I do not know and there are people that I can hire that do better work faster, so far they have been elusive to me and I do most of the work myself under the supervision of my favorite A&P.

[Ragsf15e]

7 hours ago, hubcap said:

1 hour of maintenance for every hour of flight?

I fly Myrtle ~150 hrs / year with around 20 hours of maintenance, which includes oil changes and annual inspection. I keep her in the best possible condition and have had a 100% dispatch rate. 

I did not realize that Bravos were so maintenance intensive.

I’m not saying you guys need 1/1 mx/flt hours on your Bravos, but I think (I don’t have this on me) the Mooney mm for 100hr/annual INSPECTION on my F is like 35ish hours.  The Bravo has to be at least that or more.  Add in ANY maintenance at annual, 3 oil changes, and mx during the year, you’ll be much higher than 20 hours… unless you don’t do it all or don’t count on the time you spend yourself?

[1980Mooney]

11 hours ago, Dickard said:

My wife hasn't been thrilled about the money aspect, but she's definitely much more negative about a plane trying to kill me.

Sounds like you have been flying solo on all your flights.....and will likely be doing the same for a long time into the future.

[ArtVandelay]

I do most of the work myself under the supervision of my favorite A&P.

Ahhh, that’s why your hours are so high. My mechanic probably can do a oil change in an hour, I need at least 2.

[Dickard]

14 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Sounds like you have been flying solo on all your flights.....and will likely be doing the same for a long time into the future.

She's flown with me once...and we landed in horrible winds.  I flew my son to a baseball tournament last summer...and a no-blow gasket blew on an exhaust pipe.  Just talked to my mom, she told me to sell the damn thing.  Nobody wants me in it.

[chriscalandro]

How does a rudder trim indicator result in you going off the runway?

[Dickard]

23 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

How does a rudder trim indicator result in you going off the runway?

Rudder trim is tied to the nose wheel.  Plane always pulled to the right during taxi and landing.  Kept complaining about it to my "wait and see" previous mechanic.  No big deal...until ATC landed me with 15 knot tailwind after telling me I had a 30 degree crosswind.  "Pulled to the right" became "dart to the right" when you are doing F1 speeds on touchdown.