Where did the posts about "Mixed Injectors" and "Lead in the Spark Plugs" go?

[LANCECASPER]

Am I losing my mind or where did @redbaron1982's recent posts about injectors and spark plugs go?

[hubcap]

I assumed it was deleted based on its direction of travel. 
 

OP made several strong accusations.

[toto]

This is an odd thing with Invision. The entire thread goes away as if it never existed. 

 

I kind of wish Invision would say “this thread has been deleted” at least so we know we aren’t crazy

 

[Shadrach]

22 minutes ago, toto said:

This is an odd thing with Invision. The entire thread goes away as if it never existed. 

 

I kind of wish Invision would say “this thread has been deleted” at least so we know we aren’t crazy

 

I don’t care for it either.

[redbaron1982]

I've removed them because I was being accused of blackmailing or being a troublemaker. My first intention was to get some good advice regarding very "uncommon" issues I'm having with my airplane, and I did get that from most of you, and I really appreciate that.

My second intention was to share what I think is not a good job done by a certain shop, but in the future, I will keep those to myself, I will choose myself which shops I don´t want to take my airplane back to again, and I will let others discover by themselves.

I will try to keep my questions in the technical realm.

(BTW: I was going to make a sarcastic comment, but that wouldn´t be "technical realm" :P)

PS: Sorry for the good knowledge shared by all of you that was lost in those post.

[N201MKTurbo]

The world is going crazy! I think I will go flying, there is nothing to worry about up there except flying. It makes all the other issues go away for a while.

[redbaron1982]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The world is going crazy! I think I will go flying, there is nothing to worry about up there except flying. It makes all the other issues go away for a while.

That's one of the main reason why I like flying, the rest of the world just turns off as soon as I start preflying.

[Will.iam]

Scuba diving isolates the world even more so. No cell phone no radio chatter no engine noise. Only the sounds of the ocean and sporadic bubbles that come out of my regulator are the only sounds i hear.  

[PT20J]

When I had a bad day at work, I’d just go flying over the building and notice how small and insignificant it looked from the air. If it still looked troublesome, I’d just climb higher.

[GeeBee]

My problem was if I was having a bad day at work, I was flying anyway.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, PT20J said:

When I had a bad day at work, I’d just go flying over the building and notice how small and insignificant it looked from the air. If it still looked troublesome, I’d just climb higher.

Many decades ago when I was still invincible, I did most of my fun flying at night.  I don't remember ever taking a chart.  If I wasn't paying attention and got "lost", I'd just go up a few more thousand feet, and there was the world below laid out just like a very detailed map.

[FlyingDude]

I wish OPs had the ability to weed out  incorrect technical info or comments that lead the thread to bad directions. Maybe we need a moderator?  

I think a bad pirep about shops should be welcome. I didn't read those posts so I won't comment on this specific instance. I am biased against the pushback on bad posts, because I do have my share of backlash from Facebook cfi group where I raised a comment on "the children of the magenta line" for using the term "children of the magenta line" although AOPA had used that term in the past. So it's perfectly fine for pilots to almost declare emergency when firefight loses gps signal but I'm an evil person for bringing it up. 

Rant over. Thanks for listening.

[Rmfriday]

i am still curious at to the $34K worth of repairs at annual.....

[EricJ]

5 minutes ago, Rmfriday said:

i am still curious at to the $34K worth of repairs at annual.....

Happens a lot. 
 

 

[Rick Junkin]

3 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

I think a bad pirep about shops should be welcome.

This is one of my biggest gripes with Mooneyspace. Someone documents a concerning problem they had with a specific shop or vendor and then plays "I've got a secret" about which shop it was. Another is the people who bust on the folks who DO give all the details. Then someone like @redbaron1982 feels compelled to remove a valuable post.

 

[FlyingDude]

32 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said:

then plays "I've got a secret" about which shop it was.

because of fear of lawsuits.  Again, on Facebook Mooney group someone shared their grief about a shop, a big-ticket shops (maybe even an MSC, I don't recall), where they charged him big bucks for the annual, but the only problem is that, after the annual he flew the plane and did a preflight as we all should, and found out that the newly painted trim screws on the belly on his plane that had been painted a few months back were still intact.  They were de facto seals showing that the belly had not been opened during the annual.  How can you annual a Mooney without dropping the belly?  Hence the post, and people were asking what shop this place was.  I, out of ingenuity, commented saying that he must be fearing some defamation or libel suit, where even if you're right, you still dump k$ into defending yourself; but then someone else with law background said no, it's protected under the freedom of speech.  Regardless, I myself would be compelled to share a bad experience with the gang, but would disclose the name only in private, not in writing.  Anyway.  Such bad shops cast bad light on the good ones.  That's a shame.

[Shadrach]

I think folks should speak freely about their experiences. The difficult part is not letting it become personal. There is no such thing as a shop that can do no wrong.  How an unsatisfactory result is handled is one of the most important parts of maintaining a reputation.  When a shop has more work than they can handle, attention to previous work becomes a lower priority.   Nevertheless, a customer that’s recently dropped >$30k probably should warrant a phone call.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Rick Junkin said:

This is one of my biggest gripes with Mooneyspace. Someone documents a concerning problem they had with a specific shop or vendor and then plays "I've got a secret" about which shop it was. Another is the people who bust on the folks who DO give all the details. Then someone like @redbaron1982 feels compelled to remove a valuable post.

 

That really is a two-edged sword, imho.    There's always two sides to a story and the MSCs or other shops generally don't come on here to defend themselves since it really isn't a good business practice to do that.   So only one side gets told, so if the shop is identified it's potentially doing damage to them, justified or not.    On the other hand, getting feedback into the system is usually good long-term, so there's always a tradeoff.

That said, often shops are identified on here when things go badly, like in this instance and in some of the more recent engine overhaul experiences.   So it does happen both ways, and sometimes it is damaging to the person complaining to do so when the complaints turn out to be misrepresented or their own fault.   I think that's often the more compelling reason to not identify a shop, because there's always potential to make a mistake or get blow-back.   Sometimes that's justified, and sometimes not.   Sometimes people complain just to vent, whether the complaint is warranted or not.

So it seems like people may have motivation to identify shops or not, and there are rationales either way.    Both happen here, so on balance it's probably about right.

[1980Mooney]

13 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

  Nevertheless, a customer that’s recently dropped >$30k probably should warrant a phone call.

Do you mean the OP should first call the shop to discuss his/her perceived grievances?…. rather than rant on MS, threatening legal action and reporting to the FSDO and communicating only by email?

[Pinecone]

Uuuh, yes. 

Luckily the two shops I have used do good work and stand behind their work.

The first step is ALWAYS to contact the shop and calmly explain what you perceive the issue to be.  And try to work it out.

But, the community needs to help each other out and let everyone know if there are issues and a failure to resolve them.  But the community also cannot jump on the person reporting with reports of "that can't be"  "no way" "you are wrong."   IMO, it is OK to point out that you had good experiences with the same shop.

Even if one person has a bad experience, that doesn't mean the shop is horrible.  But if there a number of reports, that points to issue.

"

[jaylw314]

45 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I think folks should speak freely about their experiences. The difficult part is not letting it become personal. There is no such thing as a shop that I can do no wrong.  How an unsatisfactory result is handled is one of the most important parts of maintaining a reputation.  When a shop has more work than they can handle, attention to previous work becomes a lower priority.   Nevertheless, a customer that’s recently dropped >$30k probably should warrant a phone call.

There's a difference between speaking freely and slander--the latter is obviously morally wrong and illegal.  The problem, of course, is that slander is rarely the intention of people speaking freely (okay, most people).  It is very, very easy, in the process of speaking freely about a problem, to inadvertently say something that ends up being slanderous, especially when there is a lot of emotion or when the information is changing quickly.

As such, @redbaron1982 you probably did make a wise decision regardless removing the thread, but it would be helpful and informative if eventually we could get a recap on how events went down and what the conclusion was, at least in a way or time that is safe for you.

Edited April 20, 2023 by jaylw314

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Even if one person has a bad experience, that doesn't mean the shop is horrible.

I would argue that it's less about the shop, and more about one specific maintainer on one specific day.  That said, I don't understand how large, well-known, and even revered shops get by without some kind of QA function.

[PT20J]

The problem I see is as that @EricJ said, we only get to hear one side of the story and often the posts are made before final resolution and while the owner is angry. To be useful to the community as a pirep on a business, it would be better if the post were made after some resolution was reached and if it described the events matter of factly. There was a lengthy post about an engine overhaul gone bad a while back that I believe many found met this criteria. 

[Pinecone]

True, but that is still on the shop.

And has been pointed out, keep things factual.

Painted over screws not being removed is factual.

Finding the wrong injectors in the engine is a fact, but you really don't know who and when that happened.  And there are explanations why they might have been missed on an annual.

Doing a "shitty" job is not factual.  

Doing an inspection as if it were an annual without the clean and lube portion and missing major corrosion is factual.

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Do you mean the OP should first call the shop to discuss his/her perceived grievances?…. rather than rant on MS, threatening legal action and reporting to the FSDO and communicating only by email?

I think that in all cases, an initial attempt should be made to handle the situation privately between the two parties.  However, my comment was in regards to Don.  If you get an email from a customer that has spent that kind of money at your facility, taking a few minutes to talk to the customer and assess the situation is small investment in terms of demonstrating that you're committed to standing behind your work.

In this case, @redbaron1982 did not know he had an issue until after he queried the forum.  Unfortunately it snowballed from there.