New Avionics/Complete Panel for the Mooney

[PT20J]

5 minutes ago, toto said:

Wait, you can transfer a flight plan to the G3X via Bluetooth?

I thought that flight plan transfer was only possible via WiFi with a FlightStream.

The G3X will transfer flight plans from the iPad to the GTN and from the GTN to the iPad. There is a limitation that since the G3X GPS nav database is VFR, it does not understand SIDS, STARS and approaches and will not upload flight plans containing them. I don't find this a big limitation since it is easy to add these procedures into the GTN once the flight plan is loaded.

[carusoam]

I’m looking forward to watching the progress… 

Some other LB flyers with recent big G refreshes include @donkaye and @StevenL757…

Steven has updated two Ovations over the years… lots of good experience shared.

Don is a great Mooney CFII with a Bravo…

 

As far as seeing all the EGTs at once goes…

The Ovation has Seven EGT sensors for six cylinders…

The seventh is the official ship’s EGT used for engine leaning… the TC is at the end of the exhaust collector on one side of the engine…

In older O1s the EGT gauge is analog.  Nicely calibrated, but missing the precision of a nice digital display… blue box theory…

the newer G1000 panels use a white box that was originally labeled TIT… since updated.

As long as you can see the ship’s EGT number… at all times… the other six are less critical until you have a spark plug issue… or fuel injector blockage…

It would be nice to glance at the screen and see all six, and which one is misbehaving…

Seeing one bad cylinder is somewhat comforting… you know the other five are still doing their job…

Not seeing any data, or waiting for it to scroll by, or trying to figure out how to get to the right page… while the stress level changes….

Typical common failures we see around here… partial plugged fuel injectors, failed spark plugs… both are revealed by watching individual EGTs…

Wrong fuel, or engine timing disasters, may show themselves quickly using the individual CHTs…

Minutes count… being able to get the data while being busy departing towards IMC is really helpful… 

I had a valve failure on t/o once… it would have been great to see the data… (M20C, no engine monitor, just lots of shaking, and low power)
 

PP thoughts only, not an instrument guru…

Best regards,

-a-

[hais]

1 hour ago, Ryan ORL said:

You can pair to the G3X directly and do it.  It can then crossfill to the GTN.

I ended up getting a FlightStream 510 so I only need one Bluetooth connection to get everything (flight plans, weather, traffic), but that’s just nice to have.  (And in the end I have 3 Bluetooth connections anyway: FlightStream, GMA 345 audio panel, and GDL51R for SiriusXM)

I was told by my shop that G3X won't cross fill to GTN without Flight stream, but that it will cross fill to other navigators. Isn't that so?

[ArtVandelay]

I was told by my shop that G3X won't cross fill to GTN without Flight stream, but that it will cross fill to other navigators. Isn't that so?

I haven’t gotten it to work yet. I think you have to switch to internal GPS and then back to external, and there’s other limitations (no airways and GTN flight plan is empty)?
In addition to Skip’s redundancy, I added AV20 to have a non Garmin attitude indicator with battery backup which also has AOA and Aera 660 which has its own GPS and battery.
In addition I got rid of the pricey switches/breakers, moved the compass out of the way, and my useful load is now over a 1000lbs.

[Ryan ORL]

6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I haven’t gotten it to work yet. I think you have to switch to internal GPS and then back to external, and there’s other limitations (no airways and GTN flight plan is empty)?
 

I haven't tried it myself but I've seen YouTube demos of it and it's something like that.  Have to mess with the Internal/External setting in the G3X flight plan.

[rbp]

10 hours ago, PT20J said:

G3X fails: I can use the iPad and G5 and the G5 will drive the GFC 500. I can operate an IO-360 safely without any engine gauges.

GTN fails: I can use the G3X GPS. Technically it is VFR, but it will navigate and provide lateral guidance on an approach. Plus, I still have the GNC which will navigate and allow shooting conventional approaches.

G5 or GNC fails: Don't care -- it was a backup anyway,

I have the same setup with the same reasoning, except I went with the GNC355 which has a 2d IFR GPS instead of VLOC. I'd have to have a GTN-750 failure during a GPS reception outage to be without an IFR GPS.

[rbp]

10 hours ago, Ryan ORL said:

You can pair to the G3X directly and do it.  It can then crossfill to the GTN.

I ended up getting a FlightStream 510 so I only need one Bluetooth connection to get everything (flight plans, weather, traffic), but that’s just nice to have.  (And in the end I have 3 Bluetooth connections anyway: FlightStream, GMA 345 audio panel, and GDL51R for SiriusXM)

I transfer the flight plan from my iPad to the GTN and it automatically crossbills to the G3X. 

[Ryan ORL]

12 minutes ago, rbp said:

I transfer the flight plan from my iPad to the GTN and it automatically crossbills to the G3X. 

I do also, but that's being done by the FlightStream.  There is no Bluetooth connection to the GTN without the FlightStream.

[PT20J]

36 minutes ago, Ryan ORL said:

I do also, but that's being done by the FlightStream.  There is no Bluetooth connection to the GTN without the FlightStream.

The G3X provides a Bluetooth connection to the G3X to upload/download flight plans and the G3X will then crossfill with the GTN. It requires that External FPL Cossfill be enabled on the GTN setup page (normal mode) and External FPL must be enabled on the GTN main system configuration page (configuration mode).

[PT20J]

9 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I haven’t gotten it to work yet. I think you have to switch to internal GPS and then back to external, and there’s other limitations (no airways and GTN flight plan is empty)?
In addition to Skip’s redundancy, I added AV20 to have a non Garmin attitude indicator with battery backup which also has AOA and Aera 660 which has its own GPS and battery.
In addition I got rid of the pricey switches/breakers, moved the compass out of the way, and my useful load is now over a 1000lbs.

I put in an AV-20S also as a tie breaker in case the Garmin AHRS don’t agree.

See note in post above for how to set up Connext with the G3X. Ref is sections 6.3 and 8.9 in the G3X Pilot’s Guide.

[ArtVandelay]

I put in an AV-20S also as a tie breaker in case the Garmin AHRS don’t agree.
See note in post above for how to set up Connext with the G3X. Ref is sections 6.3 and 8.9 in the G3X Pilot’s Guide.

My AV20S is staying on, it thinks I’m still in air so doesn’t shut down when powered off…I can only assume my greasy landings are confusing it ;-)
Do you see this?

[PT20J]

10 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

My AV20S is staying on, it thinks I’m still in air so doesn’t shut down when powered off…I can only assume my greasy landings are confusing it ;-)
Do you see this?

No, mine shuts down when the power is turned off. The manual says it’s supposed to turn off if power is removed and the airspeed is below 40 kts. Since mine is not connected to anything else, I assume it has an internal GPS as part of the AHRS and that’s how it determines airspeed, but I don’t know fir sure.

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

No, mine shuts down when the power is turned off. The manual says it’s supposed to turn off if power is removed and the airspeed is below 40 kts. Since mine is not connected to anything else, I assume it has an internal GPS as part of the AHRS and that’s how it determines airspeed, but I don’t know fir sure.

The AV20S as I understand it does not have GPS it gets airspeed from the pitot static connections.  I just installed one also as a tie breaker but haven't really learned it yet.

[PT20J]

On 1/9/2023 at 9:46 AM, 201Mooniac said:

The AV20S as I understand it does not have GPS it gets airspeed from the pitot static connections.  I just installed one also as a tie breaker but haven't really learned it yet.

You're right. I forgot it was connected to the pitot/static. 

[toto]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:55 PM, Ryan ORL said:

You can pair to the G3X directly and do it.  It can then crossfill to the GTN.

I ended up getting a FlightStream 510 so I only need one Bluetooth connection to get everything (flight plans, weather, traffic), but that’s just nice to have.  (And in the end I have 3 Bluetooth connections anyway: FlightStream, GMA 345 audio panel, and GDL51R for SiriusXM)

Fascinating, thanks. With a G3X and a GTX, this seriously limits the value of a FlightStream. $1500 more avgas

 

[toto]

13 hours ago, PT20J said:

The G3X provides a Bluetooth connection to the G3X to upload/download flight plans and the G3X will then crossfill with the GTN. It requires that External FPL Cossfill be enabled on the GTN setup page (normal mode) and External FPL must be enabled on the GTN main system configuration page (configuration mode).

Thanks for this detail - that’s awesome. 

[rbp]

one (tangential) thing to remember about using the G3X is that you can't add an IFR procedure on the G3X, only the GTN. So I am not sure if you select the approach into the iPad, and then upload to the  G3X whether it will transfer the approach fixes to the GTN using the fix names (eg LIDAT) or USR001.  someone should try this and report back.

 

[Ryan ORL]

31 minutes ago, rbp said:

one (tangential) thing to remember about using the G3X is that you can't add an IFR procedure on the G3X, only the GTN. So I am not sure if you select the approach into the iPad, and then upload to the  G3X whether it will transfer the approach fixes to the GTN using the fix names (eg LIDAT) or USR001.  someone should try this and report back.

 

Even if you send the procedures to the GTN directly (via FlightStream), some things don't transfer.

For instance, (from ForeFlight) it will send an approach, but not an approach with a transition.  Also departure procedures with "vectors" transitions seem to transfer fine FROM the GTN but I wasn't able to send them TO the GTN properly.  I believe this is a limitation of the actual protocol that the FlightStream (and other devices) use to crossfill flight plans.

For me this is simple enough... just always select the procedures on the GTN.

[rbp]

2 minutes ago, Ryan ORL said:

For me this is simple enough... just always select the procedures on the GTN.

agreed, and my FF user waypoints for getting in/out of my home airport (which sits under the NYC 800 foot bravo shelf) transfer as USRxxxx

I always use the GTN for procedures

[TheBearFlies]

On 1/9/2023 at 12:13 AM, hais said:

I was told by my shop that G3X won't cross fill to GTN without Flight stream, but that it will cross fill to other navigators. Isn't that so?

Just watched a EAA webinar on the G3x (about 3 years old) and they showed how to cross fill. Looked simple.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Just watched a EAA webinar on the G3x (about 3 years old) and they showed how to cross fill. Looked simple.
 

Looks simple, the video is ~1:45 minutes long…the G3X is not that simple.

[PT20J]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:54 AM, rbp said:

one (tangential) thing to remember about using the G3X is that you can't add an IFR procedure on the G3X, only the GTN. So I am not sure if you select the approach into the iPad, and then upload to the  G3X whether it will transfer the approach fixes to the GTN using the fix names (eg LIDAT) or USR001.  someone should try this and report back.

 

I fiddled with this a bit today in the hangar. With the G3X flight plan source set to External, I can upload a flight plan with waypoints and airways from ForeFlight to the G3X and it will crossfill correctly to the GTN and depict correctly on the G3X map. I can add an instrument approach to the flight plan in ForeFlight and it will also correctly upload to the G3X and crossfill to the GTN. If I try to upload a flight plan from ForeFlight containing a SID or STAR, the procedures do not upload and I get a message on ForeFlight telling me that they are not supported.

If I turn off the GTN (or manually set the G3X flight plan source to Internal) and upload a flight plan with an IAP, the G3X flight plan and map will only depict the FAF and MAP waypoints. 

Skip

[rbp]

15 hours ago, PT20J said:

I fiddled with this a bit today in the hangar. With the G3X flight plan source set to External, I can upload a flight plan with waypoints and airways from ForeFlight to the G3X and it will crossfill correctly to the GTN and depict correctly on the G3X map. I can add an instrument approach to the flight plan in ForeFlight and it will also correctly upload to the G3X and crossfill to the GTN. If I try to upload a flight plan from ForeFlight containing a SID or STAR, the procedures do not upload and I get a message on ForeFlight telling me that they are not supported.

If I turn off the GTN (or manually set the G3X flight plan source to Internal) and upload a flight plan with an IAP, the G3X flight plan and map will only depict the FAF and MAP waypoints. 

Skip

After your cautionary tales from last year, I ONLY ever transfer between my iPad and the GTN. this is why

[TheBearFlies]

Update 2.0

"We have started to install engine sensors, CHT/EGT/Oil Temp/Fuel Flow are in place ready for wiring.  Autopilot servo extraction is begun and final extraction and servo installs will happen this week and next along with more of the engine sensor install and wiring.  Cies senders to follow."

I'm vacillating between tears of sorrow in seeing my baby torn apart and excitement for things to come and the new panel.

Talked with AATG about install of a Guardian CO detector that will interface and show on the G3x, TOGA switch included with GFC500 install.

[ArtVandelay]

What’s up with all the yellow circuit breakers caps? Seems to me you lose the effectiveness of them highlighting critical breakers (usually just autopilot and trim)?