Safety Pilot Time

[xftrplt]

Quote: danb35

Incorrect, I'm afraid.  You need an instrument rating to act as a safety pilot (whether PIC or not) under IFR, irrespective of the weather conditions.  See FAR 61.55(a)(1) for the cite if he's acting as SIC, and of course a PIC (whether he's the pilot flying or not) under IFR always needs to be instrument rated, equipped, and current (FAR 61.3(e), 61.57©).

[jetdriven]

But also cannot file IFR, right?

[Hank]

You can't file IFR for practice approaches if you are not current and your safety pilot is either not current or not rated. But I do my practices VFR anyway if I'm not current; if I'm current and want to practice in IMC, I don't need a safety pilot . . .

If practicing approaches VFR, your safety pilot only needs category and class ratings [Aircraft, Single-Engine, Land]. The safety pilot can log PIC time while you are hooded without the need for instrument rating or even knowledge, and no need for complex endorsement, either. So spoke the DPE when I was working on my rating and enquiring about safety pilots, as there are few complex-endorsed folks at our little airport.

[xftrplt]

Quote: jetdriven

But also cannot file IFR, right?

[jetdriven]

If it's VMC, and the safety pilot nor the PF are current, or perhaps neither have an instrument rating, how could they file IFR?

[fantom]

You don't need to file IFR to practice IFR, as long as one one is logging IFR.

[xftrplt]

Quote: jetdriven

If it's VMC, and (sic.) the safety pilot nor the PF are current, or perhaps neither have an instrument rating, how could they file IFR?

[jetdriven]

Quote: xftrplt

Incorrect, I'm afraid.  You need an instrument rating to act as a safety pilot (whether PIC or not) under IFR, irrespective of the weather conditions.  See FAR 61.55(a)(1) for the cite if he's acting as SIC, and of course a PIC (whether he's the pilot flying or not) under IFR always needs to be instrument rated, equipped, and current (FAR 61.3(e), 61.57©).

[danb35]

Quote: jetdriven

Gues I just misunderstood this.  Dan sounded like he said you needed to be current and rated to file IFR. Now, IFR approacges and IFR flight plan are two different things.

[xftrplt]

Quote: fantom

You don't need to file IFR to practice IFR, as long as (no) one one is logging IFR.

[Hank]

Let me tell you...for someone that is NOT currently IFR certified THIS link is EXTREMELY complex and daunting.  Let me give a scenario:

I am having a VOR indicator installed in my Mooney.  I own the airplane.  I will be in left seat.  I will be flying with an instrument certified pilot.  We want to practice some VOR approaches WITHOUT foggles in VFR conditions.  What is required to do this?  Me and right seat IFR certified but NOT current pilot.

Thank you for a "simple" reply.

Scott

[scottfromiowa]

Let me tell you...for someone that is NOT currently IFR certified THIS link is EXTREMELY complex and daunting.  Let me give a scenario:

I am having a VOR indicator installed in my Mooney.  I own the airplane.  I will be in left seat.  I will be flying with an instrument certified pilot.  We want to practice some VOR approaches WITHOUT foggles in VFR conditions.  What is required to do this?  Me and right seat IFR certified but NOT current pilot.

Thank you for a "simple" reply.

Scott

 

Sorry Hank...MY REPLY NOT Hank.

[jetdriven]

Quote: Hank

Let me tell you...for someone that is NOT currently IFR certified THIS link is EXTREMELY complex and daunting.  Let me give a scenario:

I am having a VOR indicator installed in my Mooney.  I own the airplane.  I will be in left seat.  I will be flying with an instrument certified pilot.  We want to practice some VOR approaches WITHOUT foggles in VFR conditions.  What is required to do this?  Me and right seat IFR certified but NOT current pilot.

Thank you for a "simple" reply.

Scott

[danb35]

Quote: scottfromiowa

I am having a VOR indicator installed in my Mooney.  I own the airplane.  I will be in left seat.  I will be flying with an instrument certified pilot.  We want to practice some VOR approaches WITHOUT foggles in VFR conditions.  What is required to do this?  Me and right seat IFR certified but NOT current pilot.

[1964-M20E]

Scott

 

Yes quite confusing and mind boggling. 

In VMC just practicing VOR or any other approaches while looking out of the windows you do not need anyone else in the plane.  You are flying VFR using radio navigation.  I’ve done this myself before starting my IR training and since then.  If you are at a non towered airport then you only need to broadcast you intentions (CTAF) and look for other traffic.  If you are at a towered airport you will need to request the approach from the tower or from ATC and they will vector into position for the approach or you can request the full approach. This is where an IR pilot would help since he should understand the procedures and communications better.  It would help to have another pilot in the plane just to help watch for traffic since you may be focusing more inside on the instruments.

To the best of my knowledge any time you want to do hood work all you need is an ASEL pilot with a current medical.  Not a bad option when you go for the $100 hamburger with another pilot in the plane.  I’ve done this calling landmarks out to the safety pilot to double check where I know we were.

[Hank]

Dan--

Looks to me like you have a very solid grasp of the requirements to ACT AS PIC. Logging time as PIC, however, may be done on any flight where I am the sole manipulator of the controls [ASEL], and for any flight where I am acting as safety pilot while the guy flying is shooting practice approaches in VMC. My safety pilot, with ASEL only, also logs PIC time while I am PIC and logging PIC time, shooting my own practice approaches. He is NOT PIC, but he logs the time as such while I wear my foggles. So says my DPE.

[danb35]

Quote: Hank

My safety pilot, with ASEL only, also logs PIC time while I am PIC and logging PIC time, shooting my own practice approaches. He is NOT PIC, but he logs the time as such while I wear my foggles. So says my DPE.

[jetdriven]

Because you do not have to act as PIC necessarily to log PIC.   You can be the Sole manipulator" or the far part 1 definition "final authority". 

[danb35]

Quote: jetdriven

Because you do not have to act as PIC necessarily to log PIC.