BorealOne Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Quote: jlunseth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I wonder if they can ramp check us on demand. Are there agents ready and waiting to be sent down the ramp by ATC at bigger airports? Not necessarily smaller ones but say towred airports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 What do you know! Â I was ramp checked today. Eeesh. Â My buddy and I FINALLY got our act together to fly to Canada today. Â Just a training flight ot learn all the ins and outs of all the regs. Â So we flew KPTD -> CYCC. Â Yup. 29.8 mi. Â In a Mooney Rocket. Â Well, it was actually useful to have a fast climber since we needed to get up to 5k to pick up ATC and then dive right back down to land. Â Thank you speed brakes. Canadians. Â Nice. Â Return home, check in at KMSS (Massena nearest port of entry to KPTD). Â The border patrol was there with their truck waiting for us. Â He was pretty gruff and wanted to do a full search, and see all of our ARROW + passport + DTOPS + eAPIS etc info. Â And search the plane and pass with a geiger counter and many questions. Â It took 1hr on the ground total which really slows down what is a 10min direct flight, eh? Â Really the border guy was obviously doing a crank border guy schtick rather than actually being cranky and he was just having fun. Â Said he was required to check everything and it was more fun to do it as he was and hoped we didn't think he was really angry at us. Â Its cool. Â Luckily I really was a good guy with no radioactive material or chemicals on board. Â So he wished us well and sent us on our we to proceed the next 16mi of flying home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Quote: aviatoreb What do you know! Â I was ramp checked today. Eeesh.... Return home, check in at KMSS (Massena nearest port of entry to KPTD). Â The border patrol was there with their truck waiting for us. Â He was pretty gruff and wanted to do a full search, and see all of our ARROW + passport + DTOPS + eAPIS etc info. Â And search the plane and pass with a geiger counter and many questions. Â It took 1hr on the ground total which really slows down what is a 10min direct flight, eh? Â Really the border guy was obviously doing a crank border guy schtick rather than actually being cranky and he was just having fun. Â Said he was required to check everything and it was more fun to do it as he was and hoped we didn't think he was really angry at us. Â Its cool. Â Luckily I really was a good guy with no radioactive material or chemicals on board. Â So he wished us well and sent us on our we to proceed the next 16mi of flying home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Vance Brand KLMO Longmont CO about 10 years ago. Kind of awkward till I realized who he was and what he wanted. Gave him AROW, pilot licence and medical. Took about a minute. You do not need to carry log books for plane or pilot. If he asks they are not on board. Too many can o worms there. If you have an "incident" DO NOT give log books of any kind to them until your legal team reviews them. You can be clean but have a "typo" and get violated. By the time they ask for logs they want to get you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARZ Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Quote: Bnicolette For my weight and balance, I have been using the fltplan.com version and have made a couple "canned" versions that I keep in my clipboard can that represent most of my flights. Â Full fuel, 1 pax, full fuel 2 pax, 50 gallons/1pax, etc. Â That way I have most of my configurations covered and current in the event of a ramp check since everything is on my iPhone these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Mike, I think you are right.  They want the weight and balance data, and that you are able to demonstrate you are within limits only  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Right on Phil.  Just give them what they ask for.  There are no airplane logs, only records  This goes for pilot logs too. Heck, you don't have a logbook, only flights for recency and currency.  Quote: pmccand A R R O W used to be the memory aid....Airworthiness certificate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Quote: borealone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjsny78 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I have nothing but good things to say about the customs people at kbtv. I was in and out in no more than 3 mins. the guy came out with his dog and walked around the plane and said good night. Did not give him anything or get out of the plane. Best Experience I had crossing borders. Try KFXE. They tried to convince me I was radioactive or had a nuclear device. True story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Quote: maropers  I believe the weight and balance they are looking for is the latest done for any additions / subtractions of equipment from the original certified weight an balance - basically the calculated empty weight and center of gravity - not your flight planning W&B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Brett you sound good to go. Â we did the cowl kit and you are right, it is much tighter. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yeah Byron, I haven't had to tug down on my cowl since it was done. Â Phew. Â Glad you guys had the same result. Â I haven't taken my cowl off since it was installed, but I can't imagine it's any tougher getting on since the only change was the two screws at the bottom. Thanks for leading me to LASAR for that fix. Â I also just got the chaff tape from them but haven't put it on yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 We got the .012 UHMW tape from Mcmaster carr. Get the super sticky version. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Quote: aviatoreb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
231flyer Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I believe CBP(Customs and Border Patrol) policy requires 100% inspection for flights entering the US from the southern border (includes the Carribean). Â As most of you know, the eAPIS process is very specific and you should absolutely expect to comply by entering through a designated port of entry. I am not current on entry from Canada. Ramp checks are obviously not entry inpections although they may involve similar documents. Â You are not required to allow the FAA access to your baggage etc during a ramp check. The CBP can require you to unload all your luggage and have free access to your aircraft and belongings. Â According to my attorney, you should consider your a/c impounded once you roll onto the customs ramp. They have complete control of the a/c till they are satisfied with the inspection and release it back to you. That said, I had a very pleasant experience on our return from the Bahamas over Thanksgiving. Â The CBP agent met our Malibu on the ramp. Â He peered inside the cabin and then asked us to come into the customs building with just our passports.....no unloading or inspecting our luggage. The CBP agent inspecting our passports was not interested in AROW or my pilot license/medical. Â The entire process at Ft Pierce took less than 5 minutes. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Quote: borealone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 @borealone 91-78 is talking about "paper reference material." The aircraft AFM is not that under the type certificate, it is installed equipment. It is not the same as keeping your approach plates or charts on an EFB. Being able to use an electronic copy of the AFM and having the actual AFM in the aircraft are two different things.  The AC's allow use of the electronic copy, but they do not authorize flying the aircraft with the AFM removed.  The paper manual is required equipment under the type certificate and must be in the aircraft.  Also, a generic POH (such as an electronic copy you might download) is not the AFM, the required AFM is the one issued with your aircraft and bearing its serial number. I am like you, everything I use in the cockpit is on the iPad, except I don't have an electronic copy of the AFM, I have a couple of paper copies I keep at home and at the office to refer to. I do my w&b for a flight on the iPad. The AFM for my airplane stays in the airplane, and I never use it. I just leave it "installed," but it has to be "installed" for the aircraft to be airworthy. Now, will one ramp checker say the electronic copy is ok, maybe. But some will get you on the requirement that the AFM for your aircraft must be in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danb35 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Quote: RJBrown You do not need to carry log books for plane or pilot. If he asks they are not on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
231flyer Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 One of the AOPA-Legal Services attorneys spoke specifically about carrying logs at an Oskosh seminar. His counsel is to NEVER carry your a/c logs or pilot logs in the plane. Â As noted above, you are not required to carry them and there is always the chance of losing them in an accident or theft. Â However his main consideration is unnecessary enforcement action initiated due to incomplete/inproper logs. Â Essentially produce only the records specifically requested and contact an aviation attorney if you feel it involves a violation of any kind. Â I keep my logs in a lockbox and have scanned copies on my office computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 After speaking with a colleague of mine that now works at our local FSDO, I got the "low down" on the real requirements. Â I was completely wrong in my thinking what was required as far as documents in respect to the POH and the weight & balance. Â The POH as stated earlier has to be an original for the airplane and has to be a paper copy. Â This doesn't make sense to me these days, but it is what's required. Â Also as stated earlier there has to be a W&B report in the POH. Â I guess I am too far removed from part 91 flying these days and was trying to cross over my thinking of part 25 airplanes with respect to the AFM and weight & balance computations. Â So sorry to all that put any weight on my generality thinking and posted it to this forum. Â However, I'm glad that I dug a littler deeper so I can throw my original POH back in the airplane before I get ramped. Â Thanks fellow Mooneyspacers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 When I called the FSDO about this (my plane was being annualed for prebuy and I took POH home to study, mechanic needed to test fly plane and noticed POH wasn't there so I was hoping to get away with email him a scan copy to keep on a laptop during test flight) they really had no idea. It went around several departments because they weren't ready to completely say no to EFB but to cover themselves they said to go with paper anyway. I still think that the rules allow for an electronic POH but everyone is still insisting on paper just in case. So I have both. I have the electronic on my tablet and the paper. In fact when I scanned my entire POH, I printed 2 copies of it. One I keep at home as a reference and the second in the plane. The original POH is in a ziplock bag on the hat rack. It's old and the pages are starting to fall out but it's the most legal document so I want to preserve it. So instead for actual use I use the electronic or paper copy that is just like the original but clean and intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Quote: jlunseth ... Being able to use an electronic copy of the AFM and having the actual AFM in the aircraft are two different things. Â The AC's allow use of the electronic copy, but they do not authorize flying the aircraft with the AFM removed. Â The paper manual is required equipment under the type certificate and must be in the aircraft. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Quote: aviatoreb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.