Garmin GFC500

[Bob R]

For those of you who have installed this system in a short body, I am looking to add this to my E model. I have dual G5’s and a 530W. My PC system works like a champ using the instrument panel mounted vacuum release I was lucky enough to find. I also removed the control wheel shaft AD by installing new shafts from Mooney and J style control wheels.

My question is when ordering the system through a Garmin dealer, what all is included? Is all the necessary hardware, ie. complete servo units? I heard Garmin sells the servo end caps (whatever they are and used for) separately. I heard of the  Garmin nickel dime way of selling but at this point it’s all hearsay. I just want to be completely informed as to what I’m getting into before pulling the trigger.

In addition, I’d like to know how many hours it took to install if possible.

Thanks, Bob

[StevenL757]

Bob, despite owning a long-body airplane with this system installed, there are some things common to both our installations you should look for and be aware of when planning the upgrade.

• Find a reputable shop that has done several successful GFC500 installs on Mooneys.  Given you’re outside Sacramento, I’d recommend reaching out to Don Kaye @donkaye here, as he’s had great experiences with his shop on installs like this.
• Don’t be surprised if a shop gives you pricing that shows as a lump-sum number in the contract…parts kit and labor labor as a single number.  Some shops (like mine) list out the price for the basic/essential kit contents (for example, 2 servos only + shelves, hardware, connectors, etc), and then list out any options (additional servos for trim and/or yaw damper plus their associated connectors and hardware).
• Although parts can be sold ad-how to support this autopilot, Garmin doesn’t sell installation kits like this in a “nickel and dime” fashion…and you shouldn’t expect it from your shop of choice either.  They should be transparent and answer your questions in a straightforward manner, as well as setting expectations for completion timeframe so you don’t experience surprises.

As far as hours to install, mine was between 3 and 4 weeks on my first Ovation.  This included the yaw damper option and GI275 instrument installation (which I didn’t have prior).  Calibration/checkout/test flights added another few days.  I would certainly reach out to Don offline even if he posts here to share his experiences.  My present Ovation has this AP installed, although the previous owner did not install the yaw damper option, which I’m in the middle of having added presently.  My previous panel is on the front page of Islip Avionics home page here:  https://islipavionics.com.  Let me be clear that this is one heck of a solid-performing reliable autopilot that will impress you.  I can’t recommend it enough, and you won’t regret the money you’ll invest.

Hope this was helpful…let us know how you’re getting on.

Steve

[PT20J]

Garmin kits include all the Garmin components required for a particular airplane under the STC.

Garmin supplies a list of common hardware (nuts, bolts, etc) required, but does not supply those, so the shop will have to kit those from shop stock.

Skip

[carusoam]

Why not visit the thread where the short bodies are celebrating their GFC500 installs…?

See Greg’s Short body details here…
 

Best regards,

-a-

[jamesm]

In my particular case in a 67'C, I think the installer had to fabricate bracket for my original yokes to support the A/P disconnect switch and stab  trim switch. it looks 1/2 ram horn. I will say this Garmin uses quality components as to compared to some the other alternatives brands.  Some of the other alternative display brands seem to have sloop especially in  their rotary switch encoders knobs (vertical/IAS  speed, heading,  baro settings) the switch detent isn't as solid as Garmin's.  I may sound like fool to some of you. but I would rather pay a little extra for quality rotary encoders than spend less and be frustrated. I had installed  Sandia Transponder that included a built in altitude encoder. I was a good unit but the rotary encoder didn't very positive detent with a tremor in my hands I would blow the digits trying to set the squawk code. It took me literally about 10 min to enter a squawk code for vfr flight following. after that experience I decided to replace it when I had the ads-b done.   and as Skip said it is kit. meaning that the A/P and trim switches is probably are that same through most installations. I believe it is up to the installer to decided which components are need for installation within reason.  Any quality installation shop should itemize the bill and you could probably state your preference before you drop it off for the autopilot installation. beside on autopilot disconnect and stab trim switches are probably not the switches to go cheap on to save a few dollars. As far as autopilot install goes they bidded by the job. In my particular case they were over due by a couple of weeks. If I remember correctly they told me 2 weeks or it may have been 2 and half weeks.

just my opinion,

James '67C

[Jeph357]

So about to order and looking for opinions on the yaw dampener..  Yea, Nay? Worth it or not. I see Steven vote is yes (previous comment)

The ovation has a couple more horses than my E. So if there is anyone that does have the yaw dampener and anyone who doesn't just looking for thoughts either way.

[ArtVandelay]

So about to order and looking for opinions on the yaw dampener..  Yea, Nay? Worth it or not. I see Steven vote is yes (previous comment)
The ovation has a couple more horses than my E. So if there is anyone that does have the yaw dampener and anyone who doesn't just looking for thoughts either way.

It’s not the horsepower, it’s the body length that matters with yaw.
Go flying when it’s bumpy, check how much you yaw. Unless it’s really turbulent I don’t notice it. If I regularly carried passengers in the rear seat then it might be something I want.
If I owned a V tail Bo, I would definitely get it.

[HIghpockets]

I have the GFC 500. No yaw damper. May not know what I am missing but I am very happy with this autopilot and my two G5s.

[Jeph357]

Thanks for the replies! Will probably go without, not know what I'm missing and plan the future wiring with the can bus and just install a servo if I decide I want to move on it in the future.

Going to be one torn down plane here soon.... Pics will be posted   

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, Jeph357 said:

Thanks for the replies! Will probably go without, not know what I'm missing and plan the future wiring with the can bus and just install a servo if I decide I want to move on it in the future.

Going to be one torn down plane here soon.... Pics will be posted   

It can be added later pretty easily. I didn’t put it in my M20J. The ride has never been bad without it and it’s one more thing that can break. 

[carusoam]

Yaw damper is a want to have, not a need to have…

Personal choice of dough, WnB, forever-plane, etc…

Best regards,

-a-

[pirate]

My thinking is if I’m spending that much money, might as well go full steam ahead. No regrets, no wondering……

[Bob R]

2 hours ago, pirate said:

My thinking is if I’m spending that much money, might as well go full steam ahead. No regrets, no wondering……

Unfortunately the vault does go dry eventually.

[Brian E.]

No yaw damper here and no regrets.  Great upgrade--awesome in every way!

[T. Peterson]

13 hours ago, Jeph357 said:

So about to order and looking for opinions on the yaw dampener..  Yea, Nay? Worth it or not. I see Steven vote is yes (previous comment)

The ovation has a couple more horses than my E. So if there is anyone that does have the yaw dampener and anyone who doesn't just looking for thoughts either way.

One more thing to break and for which to fight to get parts. My feeling is unless something is a real measurable improvement, I don’t need it. I don’t have it on my 231, but if I wanted something, it would be rudder trim as opposed to a dampener.

Keep in mind I am a newcomer to Mooney ownership and small airplanes in general. Lots of fellas here have have exponentially more experience than do I. Many are engineers and very intelligent to boot. But after reading on this forum of all the issues folks have acquiring parts and airplanes grounded for weeks and even months, I am inclined to be even more of a minimalist!!

Torrey

[rbp]

32 minutes ago, T. Peterson said:

14 hours ago, Jeph357 said:

The ovation has a couple more horses than my E. So if there is anyone that does have the yaw dampener and anyone who doesn't just looking for thoughts either way.

 

i have it. it keeps the ball in the center and reduces yaw in turbulence. worth the money.

[Rmag]

My M20J has the yaw damper. Can I notice the difference in turbulence?  Yes. Is it dramatic?  No.  Maybe 10% better.   My M20J naturally does not have much of a Dutch roll yaw tendency in the first place.  I assume the other mid bodies are similar?  I’d say it’s really an optional thing for the mid body.

Long body probably more noticeable. 

[Wes]

I have an M20E with GFC500....trim and yaw. If the yaw malfunctioned today, I'd be on the phone tomorrow to schedule repair. 

[carusoam]

Interesting pireps for yaw dampers!

No unhappy campers looking to send it back…

 

-a-

 

[aviatoreb]

That's interesting that it keeps the ball on center - of course -

So does it also keep the ball on center on climb where a constant offset is needed like a rudder trim?

E

[rbp]

16 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

That's interesting that it keeps the ball on center - of course -

So does it also keep the ball on center on climb where a constant offset is needed like a rudder trim?

E

when I change phase of flight, i turn off the YD, retrim with the electric rudder trim, then re-enage the YD.  

[Wes]

I roll down the runway...rotate...raise the gear...raise flaps...push YD...drive the bus.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, rbp said:

when I change phase of flight, i turn off the YD, retrim with the electric rudder trim, then re-enage the YD.  

That's interesting.  But you have electric trim.  I do not.  I wonder if the GFC500 YD acts like trim keeping the ball centered without needing to manually stand on the rudder with my leg which while they are big and burly and wonderful legs, climbing for 10 or 15 min does take some devotion.

[donkaye]

3 hours ago, rbp said:

when I change phase of flight, i turn off the YD, retrim with the electric rudder trim, then re-enage the YD.  

I do the same.

[alexz]

It would be really good if Garmin indicated average force on yaw servo somehow, this way you can trim for zero without connect disconnect...  Also good for diagnostics.