Fitting M20J with TKS

[CAV Ice]

3 minutes ago, exM20K said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe only the 28V M20K is eligible for FIKI.  I had a no-hazard system installed in the late 90's on my 231, and IIRC, it was about $38,000 then, so the current price is not too far off the inflation rate adjusted price I paid., which in aviation, is astounding.

-dan

Yes, all Mooney FIKI TKS systems are 28V.  

[Mufflerbearing]

7 minutes ago, exM20K said:

Did you mean the difference between a TKS and clean wing plane?  There should be no difference between FIKI and no hazard with respect airspeed loss.

-dan

Yes, that is correct.  The difference between a clean wing vs TKS/FIKI. 

My understanding is the difference between TKS and FIKI is not in the wing installation pieces, but in the redundant systems such as alternators, batteries and maybe the dual TKS fluid pumps.

[Mufflerbearing]

10 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

 Last summer I noticed on eBay someone was selling a munched wing that had some tks panels on it and what looked like a good stall strip - so I emailed and offered $200 for it and he took it!  So I got that in the hangar...

I'll double your money right now for that extra stall strip!  I lost one and as you said, sourcing is near impossible.

[Ghattig]

The speed differential in the O between non FIKI and a FIKI plane is roughly 8kts penalty.  I love it, need it and use it.  It was one huge defining feature I looked for in a plane.  My wife loves the security it brings more than a parachute would.
I do have a FIKI equipped Screaming Eagle that is amazing.  It is a unicorn plane with the addition of the new 2500 Evolution Pro series and dual waas 430's.  I may be willing to sell it for the right price which I feel is around $580,000.  That is what it is worth to me.

I’ve got one too and love it as well, $575k


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[GER Mooniac]

I had the TKS retrofit carried out here in Germany on my M20K 231 abput two years ago. As stated by others in this thread, this is a non FIKI-install (propably due to the single alternator and 14V electrics of the 231).

Cost was about 35.000 EUR for the kit and 140hrs in labor (about another 14.000 EUR here in Germany).

The cynic in me could now argue, that ~50 AMUs bought me a nice "Flight into known icing conditions prohibited" sticker in plain sight of the pilot. However, I do not regret the installation for a second, because it truly provides peace of mind in terms of dispatch capabilities, i.e. I now depart into weather were icing might be encountered without sweaty palms.

To my surprise, actual use of the system so far was less than I would have expected, i.e. in situations where I would have assumed to encounter icing, actually I didn't.

Speed loss was neglectible. However the TKS puts a substantial burden on useful load (which isn't excessive in a 231 anyways).

Unlike e.g. non-FIKI Cirrus installations the TKS system for the Mooney (maybe the retrofits in general) to my best knowledge is the same as the FIKI-one (i.e. 6 usg/ 2hrs TKS capacity, all surfaces incl. rudder de-iced). The only thing missing is the 2nd pump.

As others pointed out, I'd consider it more sensible to invest in an airplane I know instead of buying another one with FIKI capabilities and unknown quirks. Hence the retrofit instead of looking for a new plane.

In my opinion, a piston powered non-pressurized plane, whether FIKI or not, is not an all-weather type of airplane. I.e. one can push the limits a bit further, however for serious flying in adverse weather, I'd consider a (single engine) turbine instead. I do realize, that Cirrus owners who spent 1mn+ USD on a non-pressurized SEP, might want to argue that :-)

[RobertGary1]

On 2/4/2022 at 5:06 AM, StevenL757 said:

Unfortunately, the J model is not eligible for a known-ice certification…period.

I believe the external fuel venting precludes the j from known ice as the vents can just ice up. 

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, GER Mooniac said:

The only thing missing is the 2nd pump.

And the heated stall warning, which is breathtakingly expensive. 
-dan

[exM20K]

26 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I believe the external fuel venting precludes the j from known ice as the vents can just ice up. 

FIKI long bodies and, if I recall correctly, my old 231, have the fuel vent in a NACA duct on the underside of the wing.  This shape does not collect ice.

-dan

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, GER Mooniac said:

I had the TKS retrofit carried out here in Germany on my M20K 231 abput two years ago. As stated by others in this thread, this is a non FIKI-install (propably due to the single alternator and 14V electrics of the 231).

Cost was about 35.000 EUR for the kit and 140hrs in labor (about another 14.000 EUR here in Germany).

The cynic in me could now argue, that ~50 AMUs bought me a nice "Flight into known icing conditions prohibited" sticker in plain sight of the pilot. However, I do not regret the installation for a second, because it truly provides peace of mind in terms of dispatch capabilities, i.e. I now depart into weather were icing might be encountered without sweaty palms.

To my surprise, actual use of the system so far was less than I would have expected, i.e. in situations where I would have assumed to encounter icing, actually I didn't.

Speed loss was neglectible. However the TKS puts a substantial burden on useful load (which isn't excessive in a 231 anyways).

Unlike e.g. non-FIKI Cirrus installations the TKS system for the Mooney (maybe the retrofits in general) to my best knowledge is the same as the FIKI-one (i.e. 6 usg/ 2hrs TKS capacity, all surfaces incl. rudder de-iced). The only thing missing is the 2nd pump.

As others pointed out, I'd consider it more sensible to invest in an airplane I know instead of buying another one with FIKI capabilities and unknown quirks. Hence the retrofit instead of looking for a new plane.

In my opinion, a piston powered non-pressurized plane, whether FIKI or not, is not an all-weather type of airplane. I.e. one can push the limits a bit further, however for serious flying in adverse weather, I'd consider a (single engine) turbine instead. I do realize, that Cirrus owners who spent 1mn+ USD on a non-pressurized SEP, might want to argue that :-)

I have to agree entirely. And for anyone that plans to hold onto their plane for the longterm they'll certainly get the value out of it. Curious if your non-FIKI retrofit kit included the heated stall warning device and ice light for the wing? 

[GER Mooniac]

8 minutes ago, exM20K said:

And the heated stall warning, which is breathtakingly expensive. 
-dan

Thanks for pointing this out - wasn't aware of that.

[GER Mooniac]

6 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I have to agree entirely. And for anyone that plans to hold onto their plane for the longterm they'll certainly get the value out of it. Curious if your non-FIKI retrofit kit included the heated stall warning device and ice light for the wing? 

Thw ice light for the wing is included, though. Heated stall warning not.

[carusoam]

Great TKS pirep GER!

-a-