Best shop for a Lycoming Overhaul

[aerochet]

I just had the O-360 on my 1964 M20C overhauled at Heart of Texas Aircraft Engines.  I have 22 hours on the engine now and it seems to be doing fine.  I went with new ECI Nickle cylinders and also overhauled the carb.  Nothing else done.  Cost about $17,000.  I noticed an increase in power, but I guess that is normal when overhauling a 2100 hour engine.  Pictures are on facebook under Heart of Texas if interested.

[garytex]

One can know what one is getting with a remanufactured engine, and it is all in being familiar with a shop's output.  This is where a good A & P can be of great help, as they play the game frequently, instead of once every 10 or 20 years.  The mechanic will have an established relationship with whoever their pick is.  What you should be hearing is about are the many engines the A & P has installed for his other customers, how the overhauler fixed this or that problem on so and so's engine, when that infrequently happens.  A mechanic that will go to bat for you when there are problems with any parts is really worthwhile.

For what it's worth, lots of mechanics in Central Texas use Custom Airmotive in Tulsa for 320 and 360 s, good motors, good service.  I suspect that there is someone like that in your area.  Talk to your local mechanics.  The smart ones will know, and the good ones will only let you use an overhauler who will not screw you.

 

[garytex]

One can know what one is getting with a remanufactured engine, and it is all in being familiar with a shop's output.  This is where a good A & P can be of great help, as they play the game frequently, instead of once every 10 or 20 years.  The mechanic will have an established relationship with whoever their pick is.  What you should be hearing is about are the many engines the A & P has installed for his other customers, how the overhauler fixed this or that problem on so and so's engine, when that infrequently happens.  A mechanic that will go to bat for you when there are problems with any parts is really worthwhile.

For what it's worth, lots of mechanics in Central Texas use Custom Airmotive in Tulsa for 320 and 360 s, good motors, good service.  I suspect that there is someone like that in your area.  Talk to your local mechanics.  The smart ones will know, and the good ones will only let you use an overhauler who will not screw you.

 

[Rustler]

Job--

When the time came, I used Western Skyways to do my engine overhaul. I had never liked the concept of the "single" dual mag, so I asked if they could replace my IO360A3B6D with the true dual-maf engine, the IO360A3B6. Not only did they do that, but there was no core-differential charge. As someone else here has mentioned, your choice on this engine is the Lycoming steel cylinders. I've had no trouble with anything associated with this overhaul.

I was more than satisfied with their work and their willingness to work with me. I'd recommend them.

 

[John Pleisse]

Who are the current sperate mag STC holders at the present? Who are the current choices? Mine was the Mod Works 212 Trophy conversion. Obviously they are gone. Michael mentioned Western Skyways. Is an STC required for the switch? I have always assumed it is.

[jetdriven]

The IO-360A3B6D and the -A3B6 are both listed on the type certificate (2A3) for the M20J.  So, no explanation necessary.  It is already approved. Just bolt her on and go.

[KSMooniac]

Byron is correct.  I believe the STC was developed before Mooney made the switch late in the J production run, and at that point the STC became moot.  

[John Pleisse]

So, the late model 201's/Allegros back-ened the modification onto the type cert? Or was it from the beginning? Just curious.

[KSMooniac]

I'm not sure when the 2A3 type cert was amended to add the non-D engine... it happens regularly over a production run for any manufacturer, and I don't know how to track the historical changes on the FAA site.  I wouldn't call it a mod, per se, on Mooney's part as it was simply an addition of another approved engine to the type certificate.  Once that was approved by the FAA, it became trivial for us to install the same engine in the field.

I would like to understand the original reasons to go with the -D engine in 1977, especially as the only option.  I wonder if Lycoming was pimping it as the next-great-thing (like roller tappets today?) since it showed up in the C177RG, Piper Arrow (I think) and the 172N (with the O-320-H2AD) and everyone bought it hook, line and sinker?  Perhaps it was lower cost to the OEM, or offered a lower weight.

[John Pleisse]

It was my understanding the Allegros were the only factory birds with seperate mags (95-98). But the real question is, if it really is that easy, why aren't we seeing more modified? It's a no brainer for safety. It would cost money, but it couldn't be more than an extra grand or two. Am I over simplifying it?

[jetdriven]

the accessory case is almost 4 grand, and another 2 for a pair of mags and harnesses.  Plus labor.  So not many takers for an extra 7-8K until its time to overhaul. Then Lycoming dings you 3-5K  for an unlike core.

[KSMooniac]

Byron is again correct as I understand it.  I've read anecdotally of a shop here or there that doesn't up-charge when trading a -D core in on a non-D overhauled engine.  I suspect they are the bigger ones that have an inventory of both and don't care, or they are just so high priced that it all comes out in the wash.  

The -D engine and magneto are a good setup, but demand strict adherence to the 500 hr service intervals, as well as intermediate checks at oil changes and annuals for mag mounting security.  The APS guys even hinted to me that this setup is actually superior to the non-D variants, but they wouldn't share the details.  They apparently uncovered something "special" in all of their studies, and weren't even sure Lycoming knew it.  I'm very, very curious, but have no idea what it could be.

I'm one of those in the "on-condition" camp and wouldn't necessarily replace everything on the engine when it is time for overhaul unless there was cause other than having it apart.  If my harness and mags were on their last legs, then perhaps I might spring for the conversion, but as of now I'm inclined to overhaul what I already have and know to be good rather than roll the dice on modern, MBA-optimized, low-bid outsourced parts that come from the factory, some of which come with ADs for free.  

[M016576]

I just had western skyways quote me for trading in my -D core for the non-D version.  Same price as a -D... BUT they do in fact charge a $4500 non-like core surcharge.  In the "goods" column, though, they do offer a significant military discount.  I will ultimately probably go with the -D version for economic reasons.  Still very tempted by the 390, though, as my prop is on its last overhaul, and I will be moving up to a hartzell top prop at some point anyway... I don't think I would do the Non-D upgrade for that reason:  if I'm going to pay a non-like core charge and want seperate mags, might as well go up to the 390... Decisions, decisions....

[jetdriven]

That Hartzell BA prop itself is worth 2 or 3 knots, verified by some members on here, such as Testwest.  If Lycoming is claiming a solid 5 KTAS with the 390 conversion, over half of it is due to the prop.  Horsepower is a lousy way to add speed.  

 

[M016576]

Quote: jetdriven

That Hartzell BA prop itself is worth 2 or 3 knots, verified by some members on here, such as Testwest.  If Lycoming is claiming a solid 5 KTAS with the 390 conversion, over half of it is due to the prop.  Horsepower is a lousy way to add speed.  

 

[KSMooniac]

There are thousands of these -D engines in service, and if the design were so dangerous as some would have you believe, you can bet there would be nasty AD's or they would be grounded...  just follow the prescribed maintenance and check the mounting security every time the cowl is off, and you should have no great concerns about it failing.

[M016576]

Quote: KSMooniac

There are thousands of these -D engines in service, and if the design were so dangerous as some would have you believe, you can bet there would be nasty AD's or they would be grounded...  just follow the prescribed maintenance and check the mounting security every time the cowl is off, and you should have no great concerns about it failing.

[jetdriven]

Norman Howell had the case of the mag break at the shaft and it fell from the engine, but the mag harness held it engaged until he landed.   It happens.

[DaV8or]

Quote: M016576

I don't like the added fuel flow.  I do like the improved climb rates.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: jetdriven

Norman Howell had the case of the mag break at the shaft and it fell from the engine, but the mag harness held it engaged until he landed.   It happens.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: jetdriven

the accessory case is almost 4 grand, and another 2 for a pair of mags and harnesses.  Plus labor.  So not many takers for an extra 7-8K until its time to overhaul. Then Lycoming dings you 3-5K  for an unlike core.

[jetdriven]

There are two failure modes, one the nuts or studs back off or break, and the mag falls out.  The other is much more insidious, the flange breaks off the mag mount and the mag falls off.  Our mag was held on with the pre-service letter clamps which were putting pressure on the shaft housing not the flange.  Check yours out. I think that is what  breaks them.  

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