Electric Motor Mooney Conversion

[Hank]

5 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I know, but to group EV or Hybrid drivers as tree huggers or greenies or whatever is incorrect.

Many of us, quite a few actually drive them based on simple economics.

The Sticker price of our Prius in 2010 was $24,000, we traded it on the Tesla with 270,000 miles on it.

If you assume 50 MPG ( government rating ) and a $2.50 per gl for fuel it cost $13,500 for fuel.

To drive a 15 MPG SUV would have cost $45,000

To drive a 25 MPG vehicle would be $27,000.

See the Wife at the time was driving nearly 100 miles a day to work, and her CTS-V was breaking me with its requirement for Premium fuel and cost for tires etc.

She has gone back to work, and driving nearly 70 miles a day now, so we bought the Tesla for similar reasons that we bought the Prius, but also as the Tesla is the safest car made today made it an easier choice.

Other than social standing you just can’t make a logical argument for all of the SUV’s on the road, and making them electric doesn’t change efficiency, merely changes the power source is all.

A CB wants efficiency, and currently a Tesla model 3 is the most efficient electric vehicle.

Redoing your math, with my wife, dig and luggage, our Altima gets ~40 mpg on regular gas. At home, it's ~$3/gallon, just filled up for $2.959. So 100miles = 2.5 gal = $7.50, and no batteries to replace, 5 minute fillups good for 600 miles, go anywhere without pre-planning where the nearest 20-minute partial fill ups can be had (and they significantly increase the cost per mile of your EV), etc.

Simple solution:  sell the giant SUV, get a normal sedan that gets good mileage, has decent performance and can haul a surprising amount of stuff. And get one that uses REGULAR gas, not premium! You'll be surprised how little it can cost.

[A64Pilot]

4 hours ago, AH-1 Cobra Pilot said:

I have a VW diesel Jetta that averages 53 mpg.  It cost $27,000 in 2015, and lately diesel has been cheaper than regular gasoline.  Did you have to change the batteries in the Prius?  What did/would that cost?

What I object to is having to subsidize your Prius, and/or Tesla, to the tune of $16,100, (or probably much more), in taxes.

I too had a Diesel Golf back in the day.

You or I didn’t subsidize either the Prius or the Tesla I have, neither was subsidized,by the time I bought the subsidies had expired. Tesla hasn’t had any tax credit for quite sometime. Current Administration is wanting to bring them back, not so much for Tesla though, because they aren’t a Union shop.

I’ve said several times that I believe the Government should stay out of it, and that the subsidies have actually ruined the value of the cars, because $7,500 is pretty much cut off of the value.

I’ve not seen Diesel cheaper than gas since ULSD came out, but maybe where you are, it usually runs about the same as Premium.

Either way an electric is cheaper to fuel then your VW Diesel, and will your VW run a 1/4 mile in 13 sec and carry 5 people? Mine couldn’t. You’ll burn 2 gls of Diesel to travel 100 miles, a Tesla 3 will consume a little over $3 to go the same distance.

Besides it’s become very, very difficult for a Diesel to pass emissions now, that’s why VW was cheating.

Edited November 19, 2021 by A64Pilot

[A64Pilot]

5 hours ago, AH-1 Cobra Pilot said:

I presume that is a joke?  Would you be willing to pay $30,000-$50,000 per pound?  Not to mention the possibility of a failed launch?

Space-X is launching I believe at 1/10 that and if the BFR comes on line it will be way less than that.

But I think you would be surprised st what it costs to bury this stuff and maintain the storage facility for pretty much forever.

With an escape system failed launches are manageable, remember we used to fly nukes all over the world in B-52’s 24/7 and there were accidents.

Its not an answer for all radioactive material of course, just maybe the really highly radioactive stuff.

[philiplane]

43 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

 

Either way an electric is cheaper to fuel then your VW Diesel,

Yes, but partly because you are not paying any road use tax for the electricity you put in your Tesla. Bit of an unfair comparison, is it not?

[A64Pilot]

Battery wise, that’s not really an issue, the Prius design life was 10 years or 250,000 miles, ours was fine at 12 years and 270,000 miles. That you have to buy a battery fear every few years never materialized, in fact the batteries are outlasting the cars.

Now you can abuse anything and shorten it’s life, continual fast charging will greatly reduce a packs life, and I can’t understand what the big push on fast charging is about, y9u can’t make an EV into an ICE vehicle, they are different.

Personally I like starting out the day, every day with a full “tank” I won’t miss the three times a week visits to the gas station at all.

If you have to rely on fast charging, then in my opinion an EV isn’t right for you.

Then factor in the number of vehicles that are totaled every year and what happens is there are plenty of low mileage replacement batteries in junkyards for a low price, they are there unsold and priced low because there isn’t a market for them.

Elon Musk claims the batteries are good for 300,000 to 500,000 miles, and CATL who manufactures the LFP packs used in all Standard range Tesla’s hence forth claims there packs are good for 1.2 million miles or 16 years.

LFP will last longer then the NCA chemistry or NCM that Tesla has been using but how much longer I don’t think we really know and won’t for decades, even though LFP is old technology invented I think at UT Austin in the mid 90’s?

All LFP’s are Chinese made as they own the patents apparently, but those patents run out next year.

However they are heavy for their power output and until recently there wasn’t an efficient enough car to offset their weight.

LFP is also very safe, it’s nearly impossible to make one burn, but they have low power density, meaning you have to have  almost 300 lbs more battery in a model 3 to get the same range as the NCA pack.

The NCA pack in my car weighs I think 833 lbs, the LFP pack to get the same power will weigh over 1,000 lbs.

God knows what the SUV’s and PU’s packs will weigh, but I bet it will be thousands of lbs.

[McMooney]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Redoing your math, with my wife, dig and luggage, our Altima gets ~40 mpg on regular gas. At home, it's ~$3/gallon, just filled up for $2.959. So 100miles = 2.5 gal = $7.50, and no batteries to replace, 5 minute fillups good for 600 miles, go anywhere without pre-planning where the nearest 20-minute partial fill ups can be had (and they significantly increase the cost per mile of your EV), etc.

Simple solution:  sell the giant SUV, get a normal sedan that gets good mileage, has decent performance and can haul a surprising amount of stuff. And get one that uses REGULAR gas, not premium! You'll be surprised how little it can cost.

hmm, my camaro will get 30MPG , actually true, 36MPG when i'm really being miserly.  love it to death, but would def trade it in for a 300 mile per charge version.  haven't kept a car for 7 years yet, let alone the 10 years it'll take to kill the battery.  Just the idea of only stopping at gas stations when i do road trips just gives me the warm and fuzzy.

 

seriously, i bet i've been in a gas station atleast once for almost every week of my life, even before getting my license.

 

[A64Pilot]

22 minutes ago, philiplane said:

Yes, but partly because you are not paying any road use tax for the electricity you put in your Tesla. Bit of an unfair comparison, is it not?

That’s not true either, many States are in fact overcharging EV’s for road use tax. But it’s by the State. 

I try to link to only reliable sources, not ones that have an agenda, I assume most believe Consumer reports?

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/more-states-hitting-electric-vehicle-owners-with-high-fees/

Edited November 20, 2021 by A64Pilot

[A64Pilot]

3 minutes ago, McMooney said:

hmm, my camaro will get 30MPG , actually true, 36MPG when i'm really being miserly.  love it to death, but would def trade it in for a 300 mile per charge version.  haven't kept a car for 7 years yet, let alone the 10 years it'll take to kill the battery.  Just the idea of only stopping at gas stations when i do road trips just gives me the warm and fuzzy.

 

seriously, i bet i've been in a gas station atleast once for almost every week of my life, even before getting my license.

 

If your trying to maximize the battery’s life you really shouldn’t run it nearly dead every time, I’d use as a max 80% of the quoted range, and if your really wanting it to last a very long time, cut that range in half.

In my opinion any EV isn’t really a long range traveling vehicle, if you do that often you may not be best served with one.

We have the CTS-V still if we want to travel without flying which isn’t real likely for us, but if things get even close to pre pandemic times renting a car for $35 a day and racking all those miles on the rental makes more sense.

When we were cruising on the sailboat I rented a many a car for $35 a day, renting a car for a day to grocery shop was actually cheaper than Uber. Pretty quick I got “gold” status with Enterprise and they always gave me more than I asked for,last rental was a couple of months ago to retake my IA exam, I rented the cheapest thing they had, they gave me a Tahoe.

[philiplane]

4 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

That’s not true either, many States are in fact overcharging EV’s for road use tax. But it’s by the State. 

I try to link to only reliable sources, not ones that have an agenda, I assume most believe Consumer reports?

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/more-states-hitting-electric-vehicle-owners-with-high-fees/

No, we're not talking about other states. We're talking about your personal experience. So let's be brutally honest about the EV/gas comparison. First, Florida has lower than average electric rates. Second, there is no mileage tax for EV's in Florida, so you are using the roads without paying for them. And buying and driving a heavily subsidized car. Which makes your EV "cheaper" than the guy who is paying the full freight. It's good for your own situation, and that's fine, but it's hardly fair for a comparison. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by philiplane

[N201MKTurbo]

13 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Space-X is launching I believe at 1/10 that and if the BFR comes on line it will be way less than that.

But I think you would be surprised st what it costs to bury this stuff and maintain the storage facility for pretty much forever.

With an escape system failed launches are manageable, remember we used to fly nukes all over the world in B-52’s 24/7 and there were accidents.

Its not an answer for all radioactive material of course, just maybe the really highly radioactive stuff.

The waste from a power plant is way way more hazardous than what is is a nuclear weapon. 
 

Space X is launching things into earth orbit, not on a collision course with the sun. You don’t want nuclear waste in earth orbit, it will eventually fall back down. To get it to leave the earth’s gravity you have to accelerate it so it has a momentum greater than the pull of gravity. That takes a lot more power.

[A64Pilot]

Space-x launched a Tesla Roadster into orbit around the sun as a gimmick, they can easily launch to anything in the Solar system, it’s just a lot of Math.

There is no money in launching to anywhere but orbit and Space-X is in business to make money so they do orbital launches.

Launching into the Sun is actually very easy, all you need to do is slow the vehicle enough and the gravity well of the sun will pull it in. The same as de-orbiting from the Earth, just slow down and you will fall onto the Earth.

IF the BFR works Starship can carry over 100 tons into orbit, put a non reusable vehicle on top of the BFR and I’m sure that number could be launched into the Sun.

It can be done and I believe it can be safely done, it’s the 21st Century now and lots can be done if the will is there.

Launching something into the Sun is child’s play compared to having a booster return and land on its tail.

We were on the boat very close to watch the first Falcon Heavy launch, it was impressive, but nothing compared to those boosters coming back. First Video is of the launch, second the boosters return, only two sec of the return, I must have pushed something inadvertently.

The point is,is that nuclear waste is solvable. For all I know maybe a technique will be developed to turn it into something else by adding sub atomic particles.

However just leaving it in place is no solution,and neither is burying it under a mountain, but the problem is solvable, just because I can’t tell you how doesn’t mean that it’s not, but I do think the Sun is one way to get rid of it,and getting rid of it is I believe the only real solution.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by A64Pilot

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

On 11/21/2021 at 7:45 AM, A64Pilot said:

Launching into the Sun is actually very easy, all you need to do is slow the vehicle enough and the gravity well of the sun will pull it in. The same as de-orbiting from the Earth, just slow down and you will fall onto the Earth.

Apparently you do not realize that that would take almost double the energy it takes to get the payload into low Earth orbit.