Want best speech intelligibility in flight and long term hearing protection? Why I'm switching to ANR from a light foam plug passive headset, and you should too.

[David Lloyd]

DC has a 5 year warranty.  Hopefully yours falls in that period.  I have had two ANR failures, both required a new ear module to fix.  Each had pops, clicks, hums but not a squeal.

[0TreeLemur]

11 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

DC has a 5 year warranty.  Hopefully yours falls in that period.  I have had two ANR failures, both required a new ear module to fix.  Each had pops, clicks, hums but not a squeal.

My DC's are maybe 20 years old.  I added the ANR kit by Headsets Inc. which has worked really great until now.

[DonMuncy]

I have found the Headsets, Inc. folks easy to deal with. I would give them a call first.

[toto]

9 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

I have found the Headsets, Inc. folks easy to deal with. I would give them a call first.

+1

I mailed Headsets, Inc. a failed headset many many years after I installed the kit, and they fixed it for a nominal fee.  They stand behind even a way-out-of-warranty unit.

[Bolter]

Throughout the thread was talk about getting noise from in the cockpit.  I have used a few of these apps for work purposes, listed below.  I am currently between planes, but will get a screen capture of the noise in an Ovation in late January if things go as planned.   I trust these apps for the spectrum.  Amplitude accuracy has not been verified in my use.  I have used this to cross check my tachometer as you can pick up the prop or other noises that are fixed ratio to engine speed.

6.2 Android App:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.spectrumanalyzer
“Keuwl Spectrum Analyzer”

6.3 I-Phone App:
Search for “SpectrumView from Oxford Wave Research” in the App Store.

6.4 PC-based Sound Analyzer:
http://www.ymec.com/products/dssf3e/ " DSSF3 Light RA + Mmlib" version
 

[amillet]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:22 AM, pmccand said:

 

It is exactly that.  Quiet Technologies is the original.  The other guys add absolutely no benefit over the ones they copied.  Reverse engineering is NOT a noble form of engineering.

 

Unless it’s being done at Area 51

[David Lloyd]

On 11/6/2021 at 3:36 AM, Will.iam said:

Has anybody tried the CQ1? 
https://cqheadset.com/

would sure like to get a pirep on these. They might be my next headset to try. 

 

On 11/6/2021 at 6:34 PM, Andy95W said:

Looks exactly like the QT Halo, but more expensive.  And I’ll bet the owner of the company isn’t a Mooney owner like Phil @pmccand (yes, he’s also a MooneySpace member).

https://www.quiettechnologies.com

The CQ1 owners are RV owners and quite active in that community, see vanairforce.net.  I will suggest they advertise here.  Looks like the QT but with some improvements.  A few years ago when they started building headsets they said something about a microphone that stays in place.  I've had a QT for years and have realized every few minutes I am repositioning that sucker.  They have recently added bluetooth capability.  I have been switching back and forth between my Halo and DC with the Headsets ANR.  Clamp or reposition, get tired of one, do the other.  My social security check is increasing this month, may be time for a new headset.

[Danb]

5 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

 

The CQ1 owners are RV owners and quite active in that community, see vanairforce.net.  I will suggest they advertise here.  Looks like the QT but with some improvements.  A few years ago when they started building headsets they said something about a microphone that stays in place.  I've had a QT for years and have realized every few minutes I am repositioning that sucker.  They have recently added bluetooth capability.  I have been switching back and forth between my Halo and DC with the Headsets ANR.  Clamp or reposition, get tired of one, do the other.  My social security check is increasing this month, may be time for a new headset.

Unfortunately our Medicare and supplement will eat more than we get. Gotta love it

[0TreeLemur]

On 1/5/2022 at 5:55 PM, DonMuncy said:

I have found the Headsets, Inc. folks easy to deal with. I would give them a call first.

Called them today.  Very helpful.   First question was: "How long had you been wearing them when the squeal started?"   Ans: about 4 hours.    It turns out that sweaty heads can cause feedback in the ANR circuit.   My right ear cup was against my hot, sweaty head.   A known problem with the closed-loop design of their headset.   That explains why they worked fine on the trop back home.  It seems the problem is solved.

Advice from the company.  Take them off occasionally and let them have some air if you get sweaty.

[Hank]

36 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

It turns out that sweaty heads can cause feedback in the ANR circuit.   My right ear cup was against my hot, sweaty head.   A known problem with the closed-loop design of their headset.

Another point for Quiet Technologies! My Halos do not cause sweaty heads or even sweaty ears, and they have no ear cups. Halos are also not ANR, but they sure are quiet!

My wife didn't want anything in her ears, then another silicone pad leaked all down the side of her head . . . . I bought her a set of Halos and told her I could sell them quickly if she didn't like them. Only took a short local flight and now she's a fan.  

[0TreeLemur]

51 minutes ago, Hank said:

Another point for Quiet Technologies! My Halos do not cause sweaty heads or even sweaty ears, and they have no ear cups. Halos are also not ANR, but they sure are quiet!

I wish I could use them.  My ear canals really don't like having things in them for long periods.   Can't use ear buds.  Foam ear plugs really start to annoy me after an hour or so.  I don't mind wearing DC's.  The headsetsinc ANR is awesome.  This feedback episode is the first one in over three years of using them.

[DXB]

14 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I wish I could use them.  My ear canals really don't like having things in them for long periods.   Can't use ear buds.  Foam ear plugs really start to annoy me after an hour or so.  I don't mind wearing DC's.  The headsetsinc ANR is awesome.  This feedback episode is the first one in over three years of using them.

Routine prolonged use of foam plugs also can cause ear wax impaction problems, which affect hearing and are a huge nuisance.  People become more prone to this issue as they get older, when their protective wax can become less moist and more solid and mixed with dry skin debris.  I never had an issue when I was flying for a couple hours occasionally, but then I got older and the problem reared its ugly head last summer on a long trip with daily flying for a week. Attempts to clear the impaction with q tips or any other instrumentation can make matters much worse, including leading to serious infections in the ear canal skin that are very painful can spread to the surrounding bone.  Anyone who has ever had an excruciating otitis externa is willing to do anything to avoid that happening again. Bony ear canal skin is the thinnest and most delicate in the body - there is no soft tissue cushioning under it - it's just a thin epithelial layer applied directly to the hard bone, and so any pressure easily damages that skin and compromises its critical barrier function. The deep insertion of a foam plug needed to provide good sound attenuation can be quite abrasive to the skin if not done carefully, and even then the plug still compresses the loose layer of protective wax and can strip it upon removal. Compacting the wax and pushing it further into the canal  also disrupts the natural, gradual self-cleaning wax flow to the outside of the ear and can cause it to build up to the point of obstruction - which is a miserable experience if you've had it.  

 I just switched from Clarity Alofts I used for the last 8 years to Bose A20s.  ANR's objectively superior attenuation of the piston single cockpit noise profile relative to foam plugs matches my subjective experience with the A20s. An added benefit is that I don't have to crank the volume nearly as much to hear ATC clearly - together I hope these features will help slow the sadly inevitable progression of my hearing loss and tinnitus.  Causing less ear canal problems is an added bonus, and so the benefits outweigh the increase in discomfort related weight and clamping pressure in my opinion.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by DXB

[Will.iam]

On 1/8/2022 at 11:25 AM, DXB said:

Routine prolonged use of foam plugs also can cause ear wax impaction problems, which affect hearing and are a huge nuisance.  People become more prone to this issue as they get older, when their protective wax can become less moist and more solid and mixed with dry skin debris.  I never had an issue when I was flying for a couple hours occasionally, but then I got older and the problem reared its ugly head last summer on a long trip with daily flying for a week. Attempts to clear the impaction with q tips or any other instrumentation can make matters much worse, including leading to serious infections in the ear canal skin that are very painful can spread to the surrounding bone.  Anyone who has ever had an excruciating otitis externa is willing to do anything to avoid that happening again. Bony ear canal skin is the thinnest and most delicate in the body - there is no soft tissue cushioning under it - it's just a thin epithelial layer applied directly to the hard bone, and so any pressure easily damages that skin and compromises its critical barrier function. The deep insertion of a foam plug needed to provide good sound attenuation can be quite abrasive to the skin if not done carefully, and even then the plug still compresses the loose layer of protective wax and can strip it upon removal. Compacting the wax and pushing it further into the canal  also disrupts the natural, gradual self-cleaning wax flow to the outside of the ear and can cause it to build up to the point of obstruction - which is a miserable experience if you've had it.  

 I just switched from Clarity Alofts I used for the last 8 years to Bose A20s.  ANR's objectively superior attenuation of the piston single cockpit noise profile relative to foam plugs matches my subjective experience with the A20s. An added benefit is that I don't have to crank the volume nearly as much to hear ATC clearly - together I hope these features will help slow the sadly inevitable progression of my hearing loss and tinnitus.  Causing less ear canal problems is an added bonus, and so the benefits outweigh the increase in discomfort related weight and clamping pressure in my opinion.

 

When i was a kid i got ear wax blockage so bad had to get tubes to drain them. Learned years later to take hot showers and let the hot water run into the ear. It turns the ear wax almost to a liquid and then it drains right out. Haven’t had a problem with wax since. Might want to try it. 

[DXB]

6 hours ago, Will.iam said:

When i was a kid i got ear wax blockage so bad had to get tubes to drain them. Learned years later to take hot showers and let the hot water run into the ear. It turns the ear wax almost to a liquid and then it drains right out. Haven’t had a problem with wax since. Might want to try it. 

Tubes are not for wax - they are to drain fluid in the middle ear (behind eardrum) and relieve the deforming negative pressure on the drum due to a malfunctioning eustachian tube, which can lead to other long term problems. Issue is very common in young children, and most grow out of it. It's quite risky to instill water in the ear canal if you have a tube in place - chronic middle ear infection is almost inevitable.  Also excess moist wax production in a younger person (not my issue) is a different problem than impaction of dry wax plus excess exfoliated skin (called keratosis obdurans when its mostly skin in context of chronic dermatitis). Either can be exacerbated by foam plugs. Instilling mineral oil, not water, in the canal at least monthly is the best preventive measure here, though I haven't had the issue recur since quitting using the plugs. The standard drugstore wax removal product is Debrox - a mix of peroxide and mineral oil. It is fairly effective but inadequate for a really bad impaction.  Another step is flushing with warm water as you say - works best when someone else does it with a wide tip syringe, but this carries some risks if you are prone to external ear infection, and its a big no no with an eardrum perforation or a tube in the drum, as I note above.  The best is getting it meticulously cleaned out with delicate instruments under an ear microscope.  There are now some interesting consumer products that try to offer the same thing - I have not tried but it looks interesting and will probably buy one if the issue comes up again. There is some safety concern here in unskilled hands, so I can't recommend for everyone without trying.  

https://www.axelglade.com/products/spade?variant=35309422182557&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_source=google_ads&utm_medium=14582429442&utm_name=126644129493&utm_content=544624212166&keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAiAlfqOBhAeEiwAYi43F4jckatdguircuml-O7jjsRkZbuYRyL8ve9rROpmw9Vh0qUU4bvnYBoCDCoQAvD_BwE

[Marauder]

Tubes are not for wax - they are to drain fluid in the middle ear (behind eardrum) and relieve the deforming negative pressure on the drum due to a malfunctioning eustachian tube, which can lead to other long term problems. Issue is very common in young children, and most grow out of it. It's quite risky to instill water in the ear canal if you have a tube in place - chronic middle ear infection is almost inevitable.  Also excess moist wax production in a younger person (not my issue) is a different problem than impaction of dry wax plus excess exfoliated skin (called keratosis obdurans when its mostly skin in context of chronic dermatitis). Either can be exacerbated by foam plugs. Instilling mineral oil, not water, in the canal at least monthly is the best preventive measure here, though I haven't had the issue recur since quitting using the plugs. The standard drugstore wax removal product is Debrox - a mix of peroxide and mineral oil. It is fairly effective but inadequate for a really bad impaction.  Another step is flushing with warm water as you say - works best when someone else does it with a wide tip syringe, but this carries some risks if you are prone to external ear infection, and its a big no no with an eardrum perforation or a tube in the drum, as I note above.  The best is getting it meticulously cleaned out with delicate instruments under an ear microscope.  There are now some interesting consumer products that try to offer the same thing - I have not tried but it looks interesting and will probably buy one if the issue comes up again. There is some safety concern here in unskilled hands, so I can't recommend for everyone without trying.  
https://www.axelglade.com/products/spade?variant=35309422182557&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_source=google_ads&utm_medium=14582429442&utm_name=126644129493&utm_content=544624212166&keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAiAlfqOBhAeEiwAYi43F4jckatdguircuml-O7jjsRkZbuYRyL8ve9rROpmw9Vh0qUU4bvnYBoCDCoQAvD_BwE

Funny how your explanation prompted a memory. My older child was about 7 when she came home from school with a note from the teacher saying she wasn’t paying attention in class. She had a regular pediatrician scheduled for that week and I mentioned her attention issue. He looked in her ears and said her attention issue was caused by the fact she couldn’t hear.

Before sending her off to an ENT, he asked if I could try flushing her ears with one of those pharmacy kits. Every night for the next several days I rinsed out her ears. On the 4th night out came these huge plugs of wax - from both ears. She looked at me and said “Daddy, I can hear!”

Now if I can only find a kit for Tinnitus!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Funny how your explanation prompted a memory. My older child was about 7 when she came home from school with a note from the teacher saying she wasn’t paying attention in class. She had a regular pediatrician scheduled for that week and I mentioned her attention issue. He looked in her ears and said her attention issue was caused by the fact she couldn’t hear.

Before sending her off to an ENT, he asked if I could try flushing her ears with one of those pharmacy kits. Every night for the next several days I rinsed out her ears. On the 4th night out came these huge plugs of wax - from both ears. She looked at me and said “Daddy, I can hear!”

Now if I can only find a kit for Tinnitus!

Ha!  That reminded me of working in a rural family practice clinic in med school, we'd get a lot of people (adults) coming in to flush out the ears, and the size of some of the plugs we'd get out would boggle the mind!  

[Andy95W]

[Cruiser]

Regardless of scientific data, dB analysis, ANR research or any other auditory study....

I wear QT Halo's, my co-pilot wears the ANR. I have tried both. The ANRs a nice, the QT Halos are better. 

I can hear the controller clearer and never miss a call with the QT Halos. 

not so much if I wear the ANRs. 

it seems to me that the first word is clipped in the active noise cancelling and I can set the volume lower when wearing the Halos. 

Just my real world observations. No science involved. 

[DXB]

On 1/15/2022 at 9:23 AM, Cruiser said:

Regardless of scientific data, dB analysis, ANR research or any other auditory study....

I wear QT Halo's, my co-pilot wears the ANR. I have tried both. The ANRs a nice, the QT Halos are better. 

I can hear the controller clearer and never miss a call with the QT Halos. 

not so much if I wear the ANRs. 

it seems to me that the first word is clipped in the active noise cancelling and I can set the volume lower when wearing the Halos. 

Just my real world observations. No science involved. 

It’s tough for me to reconcile my subjective experience with those who say the foam plugs provide equivalent or better sound attenuation.  If I could figure out how to replicate it, I might switch back - Halos are more comfortable on your head. Last night I flew with my A20s for maybe the third time - I’m still freaked out by how quiet it is in comparison. Maybe it’s the design quality of that particular headset model- I’m not sure. Regardless, I can leave the volume much lower and ATC is much clearer. I have noticeably less noise-induced fatigue in the air and at the end of a long flight.

 I do see the point someone made about losing engine noise information. It’s nearly silent at idle, and at takeoff power, it sounds no louder than my car accelerating - no more cranking up the radio volume when I take the runway. Last night, I chopped power way back when approaching home because I was late on descending - the sudden silence startled me for a split second because I thought my engine quit.  I guess my brain is getting used to the new normal of a high end ANR set after 7 years flying with a foam plug set. I wish I had just started with my current set - my prior devotion to the lightness of the foam plugs probably cost me some hearing. 

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, DXB said:

It’s tough for me to reconcile my subjective experience with those who say the foam plugs provide equivalent or better sound attenuation.

Simple. I gave away the foam inserts that came with my Halos. The included silicone tips fit better, aren't a problem in cold weather, won't squirter out like foaming try to do. I think my Halos came with 2 sizes of silicone tips, they're great.

I hate foam earplugs!!

[DXB]

39 minutes ago, Hank said:

Simple. I gave away the foam inserts that came with my Halos. The included silicone tips fit better, aren't a problem in cold weather, won't squirter out like foaming try to do. I think my Halos came with 2 sizes of silicone tips, they're great.

I hate foam earplugs!!

Silicone plugs are more comfortable but objectively attenuates worse than foam.