M20J SE, Tail strobe only, no white position light?

[fatlasercat]

Have been searching the forum, but can't find a definitive answer. We have an '89 M20J SE. It as those small white steady position lights at the aft part of each wingtip. As we are replacing one of the bulbs, we started debating whether the strobe light on the tail is supposed to also function as a position light. It looks like most M20J's have a steady white position light there. Ours only has a strobe under the cover with white, red, black wires. 

Is this the original setup or perhaps some mod? Having two aft wingtip pos lights is nice (unless the bulb burns out), but all Faa materials say that the white light should be on the tail. So what's the deal here?

 

[PT20J]

They came from the factory with wingtip aft position lights. I presume the FAA OK’d it because, by using a light on each wingtip, Mooney was able to demonstrate compliance with the visibility angles.

[fatlasercat]

16 minutes ago, PT20J said:

They came from the factory with wingtip aft position lights. I presume the FAA OK’d it because, by using a light on each wingtip, Mooney was able to demonstrate compliance with the visibility angles.

Thanks. That was my other guess. This brings up the question that if we install the Orion 500 series LED strobe+nav light in the tail, does that serve as the main pos light? Or do we still have to keep replacing the aft wingtip light bulbs?

[MB65E]

If you have a burnt out tip position light you could still legally fly with just the tail position light. Whelen just released another self contained strobe/nav for the tail. That’s one reason I’d like to install the aft wingtip nav light with the tip strobes. Double redundancy in case my belly strobe or single nav lamp goes out.

-Matt

[Guest]

Aero-Lite makes an Led replacement for the A-508 white position light bulb.

Clarence

[ZuluZulu]

On 3/20/2021 at 12:08 PM, fatlasercat said:

Have been searching the forum, but can't find a definitive answer. We have an '89 M20J SE. It as those small white steady position lights at the aft part of each wingtip. As we are replacing one of the bulbs, we started debating whether the strobe light on the tail is supposed to also function as a position light. It looks like most M20J's have a steady white position light there. Ours only has a strobe under the cover with white, red, black wires. 

Is this the original setup or perhaps some mod? Having two aft wingtip pos lights is nice (unless the bulb burns out), but all Faa materials say that the white light should be on the tail. So what's the deal here?

 

My 1994 MSE had a tail strobe only — no position light.  I added the combo Orion, but for now only the strobe portion works.  I will have to run another wire to get the NAV position light working.

[toto]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:08 PM, fatlasercat said:

Is this the original setup or perhaps some mod?

My 89 is exactly the same. So if it's a mod, it's a popular mod

[Lance Link]

The "strobe only" on the tail seems to be the rule of the day.  Perhaps the best way to deal with the problem of the individual white bulbs at the wingtips constantly burning out would be to use the LED replacements Clarence mentioned.  $28 bucks each and readily available, with a 10,000 hour expected life span.    

[ZuluZulu]

22 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Aero-Lite makes an Led replacement for the A-508 white position light bulb.

Clarence

@M20Doc Clarence: We have tried both the A508 and the A508 "halogen" LED replacement bulbs, but they don't fit.  Making things tougher, the left and right side rear nav light assemblies use different hardware from each other on my plane.  What do I need to do to make the A508 halogen LED replacement work?

The right wingtip says "Sylvania TP39" on the bulb receptacle.  The right side also has that metal "collar" in the middle that the left side does not have.  The left wingtip doesn't have a visible part number on it.  They seem to be different parts, one 90 degrees from the other.  I could only get the right side bulb out, the lens is stuck on there pretty good on the right side.  The right side bulb's pins don't look like the A508 halogen replacement's base, either.

Right wingtip:

Left wingtip:

Ring wingtip bulb:

Aero Lite bulb:

[Guest]

I’ve never installed these, but saw here on MS that someone has made it work, it’s how I knew of them.

Clarence

[bradp]

@M20Doc Clarence et al. I’ve got an incandescent solid burning Grimes housing for my aft while tail Nav.  I imagine the aero lites can be a  replacement for that. Will need to double check. 
 

I’m also wondering about the good old coffee grinder - can you pop a aero-lites replacement in there? 
 

Thanks 

[fatlasercat]

21 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

  Making things tougher, the left and right side rear nav light assemblies use different hardware from each other on my plane.  

 

 

Ours looks identical on both sides. Just like your right side picture. For now, we just ordered a replacement bulb just like the original.

[hnorber]

Hi all.  My tail strobe (strobe only - not a position light) has burnt out - and it looks like a replacement is over $400! (I'm in a 1991 MSE).

This price sounds pretty ridiculous to me!   Has anyone replaced their tail strobe recently?  Does this price seem right? (anyone have a line on a cheaper option?)

 

Thanks!

 

[ZuluZulu]

20 hours ago, hnorber said:

Hi all.  My tail strobe (strobe only - not a position light) has burnt out - and it looks like a replacement is over $400! (I'm in a 1991 MSE).

This price sounds pretty ridiculous to me!   Has anyone replaced their tail strobe recently?  Does this price seem right? (anyone have a line on a cheaper option?)

 

Thanks!

 

I might be able to help you.  My tail strobe (1994 MSE) was just pulled for an LED upgrade.  I'll make sure my mechanic still has the strobe.  

[ZuluZulu]

1 hour ago, ZuluZulu said:

I might be able to help you.  My tail strobe (1994 MSE) was just pulled for an LED upgrade.  I'll make sure my mechanic still has the strobe.  

@hnorber Just confirmed yep, I still have that strobe light (and the two wingtips too).  Please PM me if you're interested.

[FJC]

If anyone has a spare tail strobe and/or power supply let me know. Whelan you are making a killing.

I think I just need to do an entire strobe upgrade as I have a bad power supply in the tail, and another one in the left wing. Ugh.

[carusoam]

Somebody just posted Whelen power supplies for sale a couple of days ago... a set of three....

-a-

[MarkD34M]

FJC:

 

I just pulled all my packs and lights for an upgrade on an Ovation.  Only one power pack was inop. So, I have all of the packs and all of the lights that I removed. 

FWIW, the new Whelen power pack costs are what pushed me to this direction. If I could have found a useable pack, I'd have kept them. 

PM me if you are interested. 

Mark

[ZuluZulu]

17 hours ago, FJC said:

If anyone has a spare tail strobe and/or power supply let me know. Whelan you are making a killing.

I think I just need to do an entire strobe upgrade as I have a bad power supply in the tail, and another one in the left wing. Ugh.

 

[N205S]

On 3/21/2021 at 5:53 PM, ZuluZulu said:

@M20Doc Clarence: We have tried both the A508 and the A508 "halogen" LED replacement bulbs, but they don't fit.  Making things tougher, the left and right side rear nav light assemblies use different hardware from each other on my plane.  What do I need to do to make the A508 halogen LED replacement work?

The right wingtip says "Sylvania TP39" on the bulb receptacle.  The right side also has that metal "collar" in the middle that the left side does not have.  The left wingtip doesn't have a visible part number on it.  They seem to be different parts, one 90 degrees from the other.  I could only get the right side bulb out, the lens is stuck on there pretty good on the right side.  The right side bulb's pins don't look like the A508 halogen replacement's base, either.

Right wingtip:

Left wingtip:

Ring wingtip bulb:

Aero Lite bulb:

Attached you’ll find the housing for my 1987 J. It’s labeled TP20 instead of TP39 like one of yours. Hope this helps. I believe some others have made the Aerolite A508 LED work with this housing so for $56 bucks might be worth the try..

Edited March 24, 2021 by N205S

[Marauder]

Have been searching the forum, but can't find a definitive answer. We have an '89 M20J SE. It as those small white steady position lights at the aft part of each wingtip. As we are replacing one of the bulbs, we started debating whether the strobe light on the tail is supposed to also function as a position light. It looks like most M20J's have a steady white position light there. Ours only has a strobe under the cover with white, red, black wires. 

Is this the original setup or perhaps some mod? Having two aft wingtip pos lights is nice (unless the bulb burns out), but all Faa materials say that the white light should be on the tail. So what's the deal here?

 

Someone posted the FAR requirements for lighting a while back. I know it impacted my decision to use just the strobes as a recognition light for the tail white light. I have the Whelen LED tail strobe connected to the rest of the strobes and the solid white light set to come on with the nav lights.

 

[skykrawler]

Where does one get a A508-14 25-watt T3 1/4 type bulb?   Spruce has a Norman Aircraft Lamps product.   Anyone know if that is the right one?

Looks like this:   https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/96646/AIRL-A50814.html#detail-tabs

[N205S]

On 3/28/2021 at 4:16 PM, skykrawler said:

Where does one get a A508-14 25-watt T3 1/4 type bulb?   Spruce has a Norman Aircraft Lamps product.   Anyone know if that is the right one?

Looks like this:   https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/96646/AIRL-A50814.html#detail-tabs

Link to a A508 LED replacement Option below:

https://www.aero-lites.com/product-page/whelen-a508-led-replacement-360-degree-beam-preorder-ships-august-18

 

[skykrawler]

On 3/30/2021 at 10:58 AM, N205S said:

Link to a A508 LED replacement Option below:

https://www.aero-lites.com/product-page/whelen-a508-led-replacement-360-degree-beam-preorder-ships-august-18

 

WARNING: DO NOT INSTALL IN TAILFIN REAR POSITION ASSEMBLY WITH INTEGRATED STROBE LIGHT*

THE HEAT GENERATED FROM THE STROBE TUBE WILL DAMAGE THE LED BEYOND REPAIR AND VOID RETURN/WARRANTY POLICY

 

I bought A508-14 25-watt T3 1/4 directly from Norman Aircraft Lamps.  Came in a week, $19 including shipping.  Fit and works well.

[GeeBee]

When I went to put the A508 LED in the socket the porcelain socket crumbled. Whelen wants about 60 bucks for the socket, but it is really just a standard TP20X socket. 24 dollars from Bulbamerican.com. Basically less than 1/2 the price.

https://www.bulbamerica.com/products/osram-sylvania-tp20x-wedge-base-ceramic-lampholder-socket?variant=822162101

After installing the new socket, it still takes a little "finagling" to get the A508 to sit in the socket correctly, but it will fit. I split the socket, put the bulb in the socket contacts, then reassemble in place on the wing tip. You'll like the results.

Also I recommend 3M stip caulk around the lens and hold down piece as it stays supple and seals nicely rather than silicon which makes removing the lens difficult. The strip caulk makes removal easy yet keeps the unit dry.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/3m/3m-strip-caulk/mmm0/08578?q=3m+strip+caulk&pos=0