OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 18, 2021 Report Posted March 18, 2021 Considerations of cost ( also factoring incremental spend ability ) and safety ( useful information for SA and redundancy ). My thoughts... I desire steam backup. Panel fire, short-out, alternator / battery failure. EFIS AI's backed with vacuum legacy AI. Triple AI... majority wins comparison. Smaller lower cost navigator synced to IPAD is a cost effective map solution. I don't believe ADS-B in weather is available in the near future in my region, so lightning strike display desired with the aid of ground planning for storm avoidance. GI-275 I believe can drive legacy king autopilot AND GFC-500 at a later date when control/servo units go down. JPI EDM-900 primary over 10" G3X and Garmin EIS as it allows incremental engine monitoring before major panel G3X upgrade. Independent engine/fuel information separate to PFD/MFD appeals... software/power supply considerations. Feel free to add criticism and ideas. Quote
carusoam Posted March 18, 2021 Report Posted March 18, 2021 Vacuum systems are dead money... the AIs with their own battery seem to be the way to go... Second alternators are also becoming popular... These might be Long Body only kind options... where the engine has the space and the tail has two batteries already... The instrument panel set up with a multi-bus layout would be helpful... PP THOUGHTS ONLY, not a mechanic or CFI... Best regards, -a- Quote
OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 18, 2021 Author Report Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Vacuum systems are dead money... the AIs with their own battery seem to be the way to go... Second alternators are also becoming popular... These might be Long Body only kind options... where the engine has the space and the tail has two batteries already... The instrument panel set up with a multi-bus layout would be helpful... PP THOUGHTS ONLY, not a mechanic or CFI... Best regards, -a- Thanks Carusoam, J model plans. Own battery quite good redundancy yes. Quote
AerostarDriver Posted March 18, 2021 Report Posted March 18, 2021 My only real comment would be to look at the differences between the G5 and the GI-275 as far as what they can do for backups to the G3X ADHRS. I believe the GI-275 can be a standby but I believe the G5 has the ability to actually drive the G3X with its own ADHRS, something I don't believe the GI-275 can do. I would also be inclined to forgo the GTX 375 in favor of GNC355 and see if something like the GTX33R or GTX34R is approved. I would also look at doing a remote mount GDL51/52 if ADS-B weather is not in your area, this would allow you to get satellite XM weather on the G3X. The alternative being a GDL69A hooked to the GI-275 and GNC/GTX. Quote
OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 18, 2021 Author Report Posted March 18, 2021 Just now, AerostarDriver said: My only real comment would be to look at the differences between the G5 and the GI-275 as far as what they can do for backups to the G3X ADHRS. I believe the GI-275 can be a standby but I believe the G5 has the ability to actually drive the G3X with its own ADHRS, something I don't believe the GI-275 can do. I would also be inclined to forgo the GTX 375 in favor of GNC355 and see if something like the GTX33R or GTX34R is approved. I would also look at doing a remote mount GDL51/52 if ADS-B weather is not in your area, this would allow you to get satellite XM weather on the G3X. The alternative being a GDL69A hooked to the GI-275 and GNC/GTX. Copy. Great stuff. I'll look into these ideas. Thanks Quote
MIm20c Posted March 18, 2021 Report Posted March 18, 2021 I agree about the 355 especially with no adsb in your future. I’d check on the clearance behind the 256...it’s pretty long. If your investing in a 275 connect it with the AP initially, it’ll be far more expensive later on. If you’re redoing the panel strongly reconsider the 10 inch unit as the price is very similar. 2 Quote
AerostarDriver Posted March 18, 2021 Report Posted March 18, 2021 Just now, MIm20c said: I agree about the 355 especially with no adsb in your future. I’d check on the clearance behind the 256...it’s pretty long. If your investing in a 275 connect it with the AP initially, it’ll be far more expensive later on. If you’re redoing the panel strongly reconsider the 10 inch unit as the price is very similar. The GI-275 is long but it should fit, its about 3 inches shorter then a JPI-700. I would agree on connecting the GI-275 to the autopilot out of the gate. 1 Quote
ZuluZulu Posted March 18, 2021 Report Posted March 18, 2021 That giant gap in the radio stack could probably be put to better use. How about a GPS 175? You want a cost-effective map solution, which I get, but what if the iPad dies or overheats? GNX 375 and GPS 175 would give you a lot more capability for not that much more coin. 1 Quote
OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Posted March 19, 2021 13 hours ago, MIm20c said: I agree about the 355 especially with no adsb in your future. I’d check on the clearance behind the 256...it’s pretty long. If your investing in a 275 connect it with the AP initially, it’ll be far more expensive later on. If you’re redoing the panel strongly reconsider the 10 inch unit as the price is very similar. I find the GNX375 seems better value. No weather ADS-B IN, BUT!! traffic ADS-B IN is available in my area. Quote
carusoam Posted March 19, 2021 Report Posted March 19, 2021 No rush... JP clearly said yesterday, that you have years to borrow at near zero low interest rates... But he also implied that you would be getting the overnight rate... and that lending window was only available to certain qualified organizations... The longer end of the interest rate table seems to be headed all the way to 2%... which still isn’t so bad for such a fine project... The low cost route... is a one step, do it all at once, routine... opening and closing the panel each time to add one device at a time won’t make any real world sense... The closer challenge is the with the Dynon display... which is super nice... but the availability of the AP seems to be a bit delayed for being qualified (STC’d) for the Mooney line... how long can you wait? Check with your Dynon contact to see if you can get a schedule for availability... PP thoughts only, not a finance guy, panel guy, or AP guru... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
carusoam Posted March 19, 2021 Report Posted March 19, 2021 JPI900 and GI275 can add a lot of power to the panel without disrupting too much... The 275 starts you on a path to supporting the rest of the Big G equipment... Which is important if going with the GFC500 AP... -a- 1 Quote
OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Posted March 19, 2021 1 hour ago, carusoam said: No rush... JP clearly said yesterday, that you have years to borrow at near zero low interest rates... But he also implied that you would be getting the overnight rate... and that lending window was only available to certain qualified organizations... The longer end of the interest rate table seems to be headed all the way to 2%... which still isn’t so bad for such a fine project... The low cost route... is a one step, do it all at once, routine... opening and closing the panel each time to add one device at a time won’t make any real world sense... The closer challenge is the with the Dynon display... which is super nice... but the availability of the AP seems to be a bit delayed for being qualified (STC’d) for the Mooney line... how long can you wait? Check with your Dynon contact to see if you can get a schedule for availability... PP thoughts only, not a finance guy, panel guy, or AP guru... Best regards, -a- 1 hour ago, carusoam said: JPI900 and GI275 can add a lot of power to the panel without disrupting too much... The 275 starts you on a path to supporting the rest of the Big G equipment... Which is important if going with the GFC500 AP... -a- Exactly my thoughts... Quote
MIm20c Posted March 19, 2021 Report Posted March 19, 2021 A: I’d out in a lifesaver backup AI (used $500 ish) in the ADF indicator location. B: If you’re installing a 275, replace the 256 in the primary location and fully connect it to your AP. Move the 256 or another vac AI to a different location. C: I’d use the gtr225 vs the 200... D: I’d go with the bigger screen with EIS and move any “necessary” steam backup to the copilot panel. 1 Quote
OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Posted March 19, 2021 1 hour ago, carusoam said: No rush... JP clearly said yesterday, that you have years to borrow at near zero low interest rates... But he also implied that you would be getting the overnight rate... and that lending window was only available to certain qualified organizations... The longer end of the interest rate table seems to be headed all the way to 2%... which still isn’t so bad for such a fine project... The low cost route... is a one step, do it all at once, routine... opening and closing the panel each time to add one device at a time won’t make any real world sense... The closer challenge is the with the Dynon display... which is super nice... but the availability of the AP seems to be a bit delayed for being qualified (STC’d) for the Mooney line... how long can you wait? Check with your Dynon contact to see if you can get a schedule for availability... PP thoughts only, not a finance guy, panel guy, or AP guru... Best regards, -a- Agreed, all at once is the go! Happy to wait a little for Dynon. Once you start down the line of Dynon or big G or other turning back is $$$ Quote
carusoam Posted March 19, 2021 Report Posted March 19, 2021 I’m a fan of the engine monitor always on display... On departure... seconds count when the engine misbehaves... Keep that in mind when determining what is going to be displayed on the multi-screens... When things are shaking... I want to know... is that one cylinder or the whole engine mis-behaving... PP thoughts only, I only lost one cylinder once... without an engine monitor... (20years ago) Best regards, -a- Quote
OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Posted March 19, 2021 29 minutes ago, carusoam said: I’m a fan of the engine monitor always on display... On departure... seconds count when the engine misbehaves... Keep that in mind when determining what is going to be displayed on the multi-screens... When things are shaking... I want to know... is that one cylinder or the whole engine mis-behaving... PP thoughts only, I only lost one cylinder once... without an engine monitor... (20years ago) Best regards, -a- Indeed! In any case I will be going an engine monitoring system as step number 1. Quote
OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 20, 2021 Author Report Posted March 20, 2021 13 hours ago, MIm20c said: A: I’d out in a lifesaver backup AI (used $500 ish) in the ADF indicator location. B: If you’re installing a 275, replace the 256 in the primary location and fully connect it to your AP. Move the 256 or another vac AI to a different location. C: I’d use the gtr225 vs the 200... D: I’d go with the bigger screen with EIS and move any “necessary” steam backup to the copilot panel. All good advice. Very similar thoughts. Thanks Quote
dominikos Posted March 22, 2021 Report Posted March 22, 2021 On 3/20/2021 at 12:55 AM, OZMOONEYMAN said: Dynon Certified For Dynon, I would consider vertical 7” for engine monitoring. It should fit on M20J panel - still need to map it out in details. Quote
dominikos Posted March 22, 2021 Report Posted March 22, 2021 @OZMOONEYMAN, agree with your options. It would be good to map them out in terms of cost, both components and labor. One of the difficulties that I have with those conversations is that there is discrepancy of opinions whether Dynon is significantly cheaper than Garmin. @carusoam, would it be okay for us to crowd source information based on past installations to compare apples to apples between D and Big G? Basically we could create a spreadsheet with all the options for all glass new installation including GPS, screens, mounting options, new panel overlay and any other components needed for installation, including software enablements. I think it would be quite helpful and also help us settle whether the cost difference is in single or tens AMUs. I don’t think it was done before - at least I have not seen it. Quote
OZMOONEYMAN Posted March 22, 2021 Author Report Posted March 22, 2021 Just now, dominikos said: @OZMOONEYMAN, agree with your options. It would be good to map them out in terms of cost, both components and labor. One of the difficulties that I have with those conversations is that there is discrepancy of opinions whether Dynon is significantly cheaper than Garmin. @carusoam, would it be okay for us to crowd source information based on past installations to compare apples to apples between D and Big G? Basically we could create a spreadsheet with all the options for all glass new installation including GPS, screens, mounting options, new panel overlay and any other components needed for installation, including software enablements. I think it would be quite helpful and also help us settle whether the cost difference is in single or tens AMUs. I don’t think it was done before - at least I have not seen it. Exactly. Crowd source!!. In fact I'm 'guessing' install times and researching retail prices right now in a spreadsheet. I'll screen print and post below in a minute and people can state their better estimated install time and component price. Quote
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