bnicolette Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hi all, I am down to getting my flight control rigging checked and adjusted and it is the LAST item on my "to-do" list. Well, until the next thing happens of course. I originally wanted to take it to Webers to have them do it, but they are unable to committ to doing it in one day meaning flying it into the shop in the morning and then being able to fly home that evening. Being that my schedule is very difficult to work around now a days, it is imperative that I be able to do it this way. There are two shops within reasonable flying distance that will committ to doing it during a one day visit and they are: G-Force out of Akron, OH and Air Mod's in New Jersey. Akron is much closer but both are reachable. Does anybody have any experience with either of these shops and which one would you trust to do an "A-1" perfect perfect job at the rigging process. I am not difficult to get along with when it comes to maintenance on my airplane, so long as it comes out PERFECT. :-) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If you don't want to publicy say anything negative about either of these shops, please PM me as I really would like to get the "straight up" opinion or experience on these shops. As always, thanks to everybody for their input!!! Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I have had good experience at air mods. But have no rigging experience there. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaredDavis Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Air Mods adjusted the flaps and flight controls on my 65 m20c during the last annual. I'm very happy with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hey Brett....I know Weber can be a bit "boutique" at times, but I have to tell you, Dorn identified and tabbed my rigging problems in under half a day. He found a control surface reskin way back in my log books, identified the problem and retrimmed the plane accordingly. He actually took a yard stick and showed me the bowed control surface, then explained how he tabbed other surfaces to compensate. My AC has been hands off since. Earlier, I had taken my AC to Landmark. I gave them the rigging service instruction and Kerry Macyntire's article on rigging and told them to fix the problem. They actually drove across town to a Mooney service center to barrow the rigging boards and spent 6 work days tinkering and messing around, trying to follow the instructions perfectly. Landmark charged me $2800. I fought with them and got it reduced. I actually called Kerry Macyntire on my cell phone in front of the Landmark GM and asked how long it would take to rig a Mooney 201. Kerry said half a day for a Mooney expert and a day and a half for someone less competent. Dorn charged me 3 hours labor. It's hands off. If you want help ferrying, just let me know. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I second John's comments, If you're going to have it rigged, take it to someone who has been doing it for years. Paying someone else to learn is always more expensive. Weber's been doing this stuff since the 60's and there's likely a reason why they won't guaranty same day. It kind of makes you wonder why the others will... I too, will through my hat in if you need someone to run you back to Mt Pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I've been chasing rigging issues for a long time now, and depending on what is found it may or may not be a <1 day operation, depending on the problem and your choice of resolution. If you have any twisted control surfaces (as I do, with no records of course) then it will be a adjust/fly/repeat cycle tweaking everything if the desired result is simply to get it to fly hands-off. If you want it to be 100% up to factory spec, then you might need to think about control surface re-skinning or replacement, as I'm now debating. You need to decide ahead of time how far you are willing to go to fix the issue, and arrange for leaving the plane if necessary. Finding out at 3:00 PM that you have a twisted aileron when you were planning to fly the plane home that afternoon can lead to un-needed angst. Note that "eyeballing" the control surfaces will not detect twist...you need the travel boards or alternatively a digital protractor and a jacked/leveled plane, so unless you've done that already you might be in for a nasty surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 ...and I 3rd that suggestion. Getting the rigging right is no small task, and there is a bit of artwork to it. Webber does it RIGHT, so you should go the extra mile to have it done correctly, and that probably takes more than a day. Seems we always stand on line for the good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yup. Take it to someone with the travel boards. You don't wanna know how far my M20K was off when I bought it...It flew straight, but who knows how much speed it lost due to poor rigging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Quote: KSMooniaC If you have any twisted control surfaces (as I do, with no records of course) then it will be a adjust/fly/repeat cycle tweaking everything if the desired result is simply to get it to fly hands-off. If you want it to be 100% up to factory spec, then you might need to think about control surface re-skinning or replacement, as I'm now debating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Quote: N4352H Hey Scott.... I stumbled across and older post from Byron (so check with him) on a new aileron, still in the factory box in San Diego. I called the gentleman and inquired. He said he still has it. I needed a left aileron, he had a right. Seemed like they wanted to unload it for a reasonable price. I am slammed with work right now, otherwise I would try and research the post. The subject matter didn't even pertain to the post Byron was commenting on, so check with Byron. Unless someone has a factory jig, I would order factory new when MAC is up and running again. My bum aileron was resurfaced and botched by an FAA Repair station/Mooney Service Center. OEM strikes me as the best way, even then, you'll be tweaking. JP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I enquired thru Barnstormers and never got a reply... nice to know it was a right while I need a left. Don Maxwell has spooled-up a guy in TX now to re-skin these after he took the last set of factory ailerons to him to create a jig, and then duplicate. I think this will be the best option for the foreseeable future, and perhaps even if/when the factory gets cranking again (unless your insurance company is paying the bill). I also have a twisted flap, so that further complicates my troubles. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Wow,.........okay guys. You're right. I know that the other folks that I mentioned are also MSC's but I guess we all know that there are all kinds of MSC's out there and Weber definitely has the reputation of being one of the top ones. Being that I am picky with the maintenance, I really shouldn't short myself on this "last step", and clould just be causing myself more frustration with the illusion that somebody is actually promising to have it fixed same day without even seeing the airplane before. The rigging is not "bad".............well, I mean the ball is not that far out of center (1/8 - 1/4 ball to the right/Ailerons not exactly same with regards to the flaps) in cruise flight, but who knows what is really causing that and I suppose it could be a bunch of things.......flaps, ailerons, gear doors, who knows........but Weber will certainly be able to figure it out and make sure it's right. Thank you as always for the direct and honest input. I really appreciate the time you guys took to point me in the "proper" direction! I definintely felt that this was a job for a MSC and not my local shop (although he is VERY good), he doesn't have the proper tools and is not used to doing the rigging and like was said before, I don't want him learning on my time. Thanks everybody!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Brett, I think you're wise to approach it as a potentially multi-day deal and plan accordingly. Unless you've done your own investigation, it really could be any/all of those things that you mentioned, and that list will take perhaps an hour or two to check/measure before anything is opened up or adjusted. They should jack & level the plane, retract the gear, measure all of the surfaces, etc. Figure out the causes before you treat the symptoms, and hopefully you'll knock it out with one trip. I would encourage you to watch (and participate) in that operation so you can see for yourself how well everything is rigged. Perhaps you could schedule the appointment and have a friend on standby to come get you in the afternoon if it looks like it will take a while? Know that I've "spent" a couple of 4-5 hour round trips dealing with this issue, plus a couple days away from work, plus dealing with a 3rd party shop that didn't follow directions and ended up doing unauthorized work on my plane that further screwed it up. I should have left it with Don originally once we figured out the aileron was twisted... now I'll eventually be fixing that (and maybe a flap) and then have to get those painted (again). Lots of wasted time, effort, and dollars for me on my quest to make it perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveydog Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Really enjoyed reading on this post chain. I never had an airplane rigged and always wondered about it. I have an acclaim and would ask for opinions regarding the necessity of checking the rigging of a newer airplane. Did Mooney do that at the factory? Do they have a process to check it during the testing phase? Is there a good procedure to follow in flight that I can implement to check how straight my bird is flying? I would definitely take it to Weber or others if it's a good idea to do so. Final question... how many knots can one expect to gain in a best case scenario if an airplane is truly in need of rigging? Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awful_Charlie Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Bit of a long shot, but anyone know someone who can do the perfect rigging job in Europe? It flies fine hands off (as long as I keep the tanks reasonabley balanced), but the slip ball in TC shows a light left skid, and the bar on the Aspen shows a slight right! Also, both ailerons droop abouy 1/2" at the wingtip in level flight, and at 75% cruise the elevator tip weights are below the stab with about 1/2" gap. It seems to fly ok, but if there's a knot or three to be had and the knowledge that it is spot on, I think it's worth pursuing Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangemtl Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Quote: daveydog Really enjoyed reading on this post chain. I never had an airplane rigged and always wondered about it. I have an acclaim and would ask for opinions regarding the necessity of checking the rigging of a newer airplane. Did Mooney do that at the factory? Do they have a process to check it during the testing phase? Is there a good procedure to follow in flight that I can implement to check how straight my bird is flying? I would definitely take it to Weber or others if it's a good idea to do so. Final question... how many knots can one expect to gain in a best case scenario if an airplane is truly in need of rigging? Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 A mechanic at Dugosh told me 2 days ago that repainting requires the contols to be rebalanced but a simple R&R for repaint should not change the rigging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 I have never really given this much thought because I know what I had to do in my C172, but I do know that I don’t see the speeds that shadrack sees and we both have an F model. The question I have is: if I'm in cruise, all trimmed up, should I be flying with my feet off the rudder? I always need to put in just a little right rudder to maintain coordinated flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Tony, Should be hands off... There should be a short period of time when the fuel is balanced and you can fly the plane by weight shift. Lean forwards it goes down, lean sideways and it will turn. Left turns are more difficult.... At least that was my experience with my m20C. Hard to believe for such an old bird. Stable air mass will be required. Dents and bends and gear doors may need attention. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveydog Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Michael, Im Serial Number 104. You make a valid point ... is rigging worth an extra few knots. The problem for me is ... I'm completely a speed junkie (not the chemical kind). I bought right into the Mooney Pitch ... "We like to Fly. Fast". I believe in ROP, I believe in the 310 hp upgrade (climb and shorter take-off), and if they start production again and come out with a Type SS, I'd probably develop buyers remorse within hours. It's completely irrational, illogical, and un-defendable, but speed is what its about for me. Turbines are above my pay grade and besides, how do you beat the efficiency of the Mooney. Acclaim, Encore, 252s, etc. They are all simply unbeatable birds. All that said, how much would rigging cost, would I get 3-4 more knots, and how can I find out the answer. Can someone send me the contact information for Webers. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 You can have efficiency (M20E or J, 29 NMPG), speed (bravo, 10 NMPG) or a mix of both, but not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangemtl Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Quote: daveydog Michael, Im Serial Number 104. You make a valid point ... is rigging worth an extra few knots. The problem for me is ... I'm completely a speed junkie (not the chemical kind). I bought right into the Mooney Pitch ... "We like to Fly. Fast". I believe in ROP, I believe in the 310 hp upgrade (climb and shorter take-off), and if they start production again and come out with a Type SS, I'd probably develop buyers remorse within hours. It's completely irrational, illogical, and un-defendable, but speed is what its about for me. Turbines are above my pay grade and besides, how do you beat the efficiency of the Mooney. Acclaim, Encore, 252s, etc. They are all simply unbeatable birds. All that said, how much would rigging cost, would I get 3-4 more knots, and how can I find out the answer. Can someone send me the contact information for Webers. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 According to Blil Wheat, the max allowable droop (down 2 degrees) on flaps and ailerons is the most speed in a Mooney. Of course we are going to test that one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Daveydog, Here's to the guy who knows what he wants.....Mooney speed, a full cup! http://www.aopa.org/airports/KLNS/business/10777 This is where you will find Henry Weber aircraft. One of PAs leading MSCs... Is that what you had in mind? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.