Mooney drivers who have the Garmin GFC 500

[Little Dipper]

How do you guys like your Garmin GFC 500's?   Mine is being installed right now by Chris at Sureflight in my little Ovation.  I have been watching every video I can find regarding operations and can't wait to test it out.  I am pretty excited.

Norm 

M995K 

[ZuluZulu]

21 minutes ago, Little Dipper said:

How do you guys like your Garmin GFC 500's?   Mine is being installed right now by Chris at Sureflight in my little Ovation.  I have been watching every video I can find regarding operations and can't wait to test it out.  I am pretty excited.

Norm 

M995K 

Mine's supposed to be done next week...

[MIm20c]

Also under the knife for a gfc install. Very excited. 

[Bob - S50]

Love it.  Long body pilots seem to have a few more installation issues than mid-bodies.

Love VNAV but still learning some quirks about it.  When using IAS for climbs, it will porpoise a bit if I change the desired speed too quickly but does great once it's dialed in.  Flies rock solid.

[gsxrpilot]

My buddy Whitey, flying a very nice 201 here out of Denver, has the GFC500 and it is amazing.

[Niko182]

I love mine. Its about as good as it gets.

[mike_elliott]

Norm, they are wonderful AP's. They are very similar to the GFC700, and personally, I have not found a better AP. I know there was some "concern" about the robustness of the servos in the GFC500 vs 600, but the planes I have flown in that had the 500 (granted, they were both J's) were very nice, no issues at all nor concerns with servo fragility. Send that K(r)ap 150 to AP heaven....

[carusoam]

There may have been one report Of post installation challenges...

Where the solution was cleaning and lubricating controls....

Best regards,

-a-

[Little Dipper]

If you are up in heaven?, do you want to buy my 150?

 

[HIghpockets]

I have the GFC 500 and two G5s. Best upgrade I ever made. 

[flysamo]

have Ovation with G275's installed, on schedule to convert to gfc5oo in 3 weeks. this will give us majority Garmin equipment looking forward to auto pilot conversion from kfc 150

[Rmag]

On 8/20/2020 at 7:05 PM, Little Dipper said:

How do you guys like your Garmin GFC 500's?   Mine is being installed right now by Chris at Sureflight in my little Ovation.  I have been watching every video I can find regarding operations and can't wait to test it out.  I am pretty excited.

Norm 

M995K 

Both planes we have in house are getting GFC 500’s. This makes a half a dozen already this year. I think we will like do 10 of them this year.  Everyone loves them. I think I’m being persuaded for N205J...

[khedrei]

I had some issues of needing to clean the controls. That being said it wasn't an AP issue.

I love the system too but coming from someone who didn't have a working AP before I cant compare. 

+1 for bad porpoising in IAS climbs. Go slow with adjustments... as in 2-3 MPH at a time. Or better yet, select 700-800 FT/min up. Then switch to an IAS climb.

 

*edit... I should also mention that my installer had a bad pitch servo bracket. The pully would actually rub on the cage pins. On the first test flight that was giving us 500ft/m oscillations.  He had two servo kits with brakets that were bent. Garmin came up with a solution but he told me it was a known issue and they must have had a bad batch. I figured I would mention as this info might be useful to someone having some trouble. 

[adverseyaw]

Love mine so far, it's a great autopilot. It does exactly what I want it to do at all times. The knobs on the head unit perform the same function as the heading/altitude bug knobs on the G5s, and it's way easier to use the much bigger knobs in the center stack.

Only two issues really:

• My 1978 J has the CIIB trim switch, without any room on the yoke for A/P disconnect. My installer insisted that disconnect had to be on the yoke. So, now I have a slightly awkward bracket holding the disconnect switch beside the PTT switch.
• GPS loss will supposedly discontinue an approach, even a radio ILS/LOC approach, and put the plane in attitude-hold mode. Haven't experienced it in person, just what the AFMS says. More details on this thread: 

[adverseyaw]

P.S. I'm really happy I sprung for the yaw damper. No more cramped feet on long X-Cs!

[Missile=Awesome]

On 8/23/2020 at 7:58 AM, khedrei said:

I had some issues of needing to clean the controls. That being said it wasn't an AP issue.

I love the system too but coming from someone who didn't have a working AP before I cant compare. 

+1 for bad porpoising in IAS climbs. Go slow with adjustments... as in 2-3 MPH at a time. Or better yet, select 700-800 FT/min up. Then switch to an IAS climb.

 

*edit... I should also mention that my installer had a bad pitch servo bracket. The pully would actually rub on the cage pins. On the first test flight that was giving us 500ft/m oscillations.  He had two servo kits with brakets that were bent. Garmin came up with a solution but he told me it was a known issue and they must have had a bad batch. I figured I would mention as this info might be useful to someone having some trouble. 

Kind of a significant edit there...

[khedrei]

Well thats why I added it. But the OP also didn't ask about installation issues he just asked how we liked the system.  So I mentioned issues ive had since install and any operation issues. The pully got sorted out during install after a test flight. 

[201Steve]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:50 PM, adverseyaw said:

P.S. I'm really happy I sprung for the yaw damper. No more cramped feet on long X-Cs!

I’m assuming you are flying a long body?

[carusoam]

Just now, 201Steve said:

I’m assuming you are flying a long body?

I’m confused...

AY’s avatar data says M20J...

Steve, are you not seeing the avatar data?  (Screen size challenge)

Best regards,

-a-

[adverseyaw]

Mid-body. 1978 J model. My plane needs left rudder at WOT cruise.

[201Steve]

19 hours ago, adverseyaw said:

Mid-body. 1978 J model. My plane needs left rudder at WOT cruise.

And @carusoam the avatar doesn’t show up on mobile. 
 

Reason I asked was, since I fly a J, arguably the “most powerful” of the mid bodies, why you would need constant rudder in cruise flight. Now I’m more confused that it’s left rudder.  My experience has been feet off coordination in nearly all cruise configurations. What would cause a right yawing action In cruise besides a rudder rigging issue?

[toto]

For another data point, my J needs very light right rudder at cruise to keep the ball dead-center.  It's still roughly centered with feet off the pedals, and basically the weight of my foot will center it.  From past experience trying to get rigging tuned perfectly on other a/c, I'd just as soon put my foot there as go down that rabbit hole.

[carusoam]

So many rigging things can be adjusted...

In the end, we would want to have the rigging set to allow hands off, and fastest speeds, during cruise flight...

If needing rudder input during cruise, there are a few things that can be considered...

Including balance of weight in the plane...

 

When everything is rigged well... it is possible to adjust the flight path in a Mooney by weight shifting in the cockpit...

My ancient M20C demonstrated this ability... with no known rigging updates since it left the factory...

Right turns are easier than left turns... because it is hard to shift the weight past the cabin wall. 

Of course... fuel balance is a big part of the exercise... when flying solo, it makes sense to be burning off the left tank first...  it is that sensitive.

 

Other things that cause one side of the plane to be more draggy than the other... include gear doors hanging down, flaps hanging down, and rudder adjustment...

Many planes get misadjusted trying to fix one thing, and not adjusting it properly... there are procedures and tools for that...

For testing theories of rigging... nothing cooler than having an AP to hold wings level, and have rudder trim to center the ball... 

 

As far as avatar data goes... you can probably find that info with a click or two...it’s just not as convenient on the small screen.

I usually use the big iPad all day... the small screen every now and then...

 

Some people don’t know about all the avatar details, so they never fill theirs in...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

Mid-body. 1978 J model. My plane needs left rudder at WOT cruise.

Same year, no rudder but she’ll turn right without a touch of left aileron.

[adverseyaw]

It's not a lot of left rudder, but "not much" adds up over hours of flight time.

Static rudder trim is a compromise across your entire IAS vs. torque envelope, which includes climb (low IAS, high torque), cruise (mid IAS, mid torque), and descent (high IAS with varying torque). Most light planes I've been in require left rudder in descent, which is required because some right rudder is dialed in for climb and cruise. So, left rudder does not surprise me.

It's possible the rudder is mistrimmed for cruise. I would also not be surprised if there are multiple "cruise" configurations, especially at different altitudes. I don't recall needing much rudder between 5-9k (haven't flown there lately) so maybe it's just that at 11-15k, where I'm flying these days, the IAS vs. torque ratio is different.

And, I agree with the aileron part, which has its own set of IAS considerations. I had Mark at Top Gun balance my aileron trim last year, which may have incurred some rudder effects. All of these trim settings balance against each other. Sadly no plane with a propeller flies squarely -- they all fly a little sideways and we just have to tweak the controls to get them as close to straight as we can.