MooneyMitch Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Lots of great advice and experience already provided by everyone. Landing the Ovation.............let's see if I remember my experiences with 211MJ ['94 year] under what I would call a normal condition situation. I do recall my initials were quite interesting and inconsistent [YIKES!] Speed and stabilized approach are paramount. Normally I was relatively light to medium load. Final approach over fence.... full flaps, trim all the way back, 70KTS [sometimes a bit less depending], no speed brakes [ineffective at slow speeds], power off. At flare time............slight back pressure keeping nose high attitude. Touch on mains nose high. If I chose to keep the nose off longer on roll out..........apply more back pressure. Regarding full aft trim..............controversy exists with this for a go-around situation. I did experience those with a full power go-around. One must be quick on the draw with lots of hard forward pressure in conjunction with rapid trim adjustment! I cannot over emphasize this!!! For the 300HP Ovation, and full power go-around, I suggest having Arnold Schwarzenegger arms........ Mostly with my experiences, full power was not required for the go-around..............this worked well for me. +1 for Don Kaye video too. Enjoy your beautiful wonderful Ovation!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 On 8/3/2020 at 6:05 AM, Fly_M20R said: Hello Everyone!! I have owned several Mooneys, starting with a 1984 201, followed by two 252's, two "M" Models and finally my current Ovation and have logged close around 2.300 hours in all of them and flown them everywhere in the U.S and also to see Angel Falls in Venezuela. I found that I could "roll on" practically all my landings in every Mooney except for my current Ovation. I would throttle back approaching or crossing the threshold and then just run the trim in ground effect and they would roll on all the time. This 1995 Ovation has taken me a while to master and I believe that it is because of the slick cowling without cowl flaps making it a bit more tricky to keep the final approach speed nailed as well as the nose not coming up completely after running the trim. Also, the somewhat limited view over the higher glare shield in the 1995 model change the landing "picture" compared to the other Mooneys. I do not use speed brakes on final since I prefer to master the "clean" technique with correct approach speed and believe it "rolls-on" better without them. I did this video on landing the Ovation and hope it helps those that may be interested. https://youtu.be/hnFt4vGmm7s I just watched your video..... most enjoyable indeed. Fine memories for me. Comment..... for me, I never switch tanks while in pattern. If I do switch it’s well before descending from cruise altitude. I believe you did mention switch to fullest tank in your video, not that you did or do that. Just not for me. Also as previously mentioned, my opinion a bit low on final approach. Aren’t you just delighted we’ve all got our opinions? Lol! Again, thank you for sharing your video.....I sure enjoyed it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 On 8/3/2020 at 6:05 AM, Fly_M20R said: Also, the somewhat limited view over the higher glare shield in the 1995 model change the landing "picture" compared to the other Mooneys. My opinion...... I did not find the glare shield created a limited forward sight ground view relative to the glare shield view on a C, E, F or otherwise. What I found was that it is the longer Ovation cowl that changes the view of the ground visibility directly in front, relative to the ground view in a shorter cowled Mooney, not the glare shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_M20R Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said: I just watched your video..... most enjoyable indeed. Fine memories for me. Comment..... for me, I never switch tanks while in pattern. If I do switch it’s well before descending from cruise altitude. I believe you did mention switch to fullest tank in your video, not that you did or do that. Just not for me. Also as previously mentioned, my opinion a bit low on final approach. Aren’t you just delighted we’ve all got our opinions? Lol! Again, thank you for sharing your video.....I sure enjoyed it! Glad you enjoyed the video Mooneymitch! I do what you do as well: switch to fullest tank prior to entering the pattern. I would have to look at the video, however I believe I just verified it was on full tank, per GUMPS. The least distractions in the pattern the safer one is. I do last GUMPS after I turn final. Same as in an approach, get everything set up over the FAF, including mixture and then just concentrate on needles. We would not be human if we did not have different opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_M20R Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said: My opinion...... I did not find the glare shield created a limited forward sight ground view relative to the glare shield view on a C, E, F or otherwise. What I found was that it is the longer Ovation cowl that changes the view of the ground visibility directly in front, relative to the ground view in a shorter cowled Mooney, not the glare shield. The M20M's also have the long cowl, just like the Ovation. I never had an issue with the two M's I owned for 10 years. I personally would much prefer lower seating with lower glare shield in the later model Ovations. The extreme of a high glare shield is of course The Spirit of St. Louis. I would have to get a bit of practice in it! Regarding running out of trim in my Ovation it may be due to tail rigging. I'm going to have it checked soon and report back. Edited August 18, 2020 by Fly_M20R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Just now, Fly_M20R said: Glad you enjoyed the video Mooneymitch! I do what you do as well: switch to fullest tank prior to entering the pattern. I would have to look at the video, however I believe I just verified it was on full tank, per GUMPS. The least distractions in the pattern the safer one is. I do last GUMPS after I turn final. Same as in an approach, get everything set up over the FAF, including mixture and then just concentrate on needles. We would not be human if we did not have different opinions. Got cha’ on the tank switching. Yeah, me too. GUMPS has been my longtime friend too. I always do multiple repeated checks on final...... mostly gear down and locked out loud!! Yikes!! My biggest fear is having to post my gear up arrival here on MS! Thanks again for posting the video. Brought back such great memories of my former dream machine! N211MJ was labeled a ‘94 model. However it was released from Kerrville in December ‘94, so I thought of it as is your beauty.... a 95 model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_M20R Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said: Yeah, me too. GUMPS has been my longtime friend too. I always do multiple repeated checks on final...... mostly gear down and locked out loud!! Yikes!! Just to verify gear is down and locked when I first put it down I will keep my hand on the gear handle until I get green on he annunciator panel AND also look down at the locked in position indicator on the floorboard. Thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentonck Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 Great videos, thanks for the effort! I enjoyed both of them. My landings in the Acclaim are a work in progress. I have always managed to successfully get it on the ground but not at this level just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_M20R Posted August 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, Bentonck said: Great videos, thanks for the effort! I enjoyed both of them. My landings in the Acclaim are a work in progress. I have always managed to successfully get it on the ground but not at this level just yet. Thank you for your comment Bentonck! The Acclaim is pretty slick and with the long cowling like the Ovation and a bit challenging to land. “Practice makes perfect...” Enjoy your great plane!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healthpilot Posted September 26, 2022 Report Share Posted September 26, 2022 On 8/25/2020 at 3:34 PM, Fly_M20R said: All of the above... I have watched ALL of your videos multiple times on YouTube. THANK YOU! POST MORE!! Landing practice tip from me: If I don't have at least 15 pounds of weight in the baggage compartment and I am flying by myself I run out of trim in my Ovation. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_M20R Posted September 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Healthpilot said: I have watched ALL of your videos multiple times on YouTube. THANK YOU! POST MORE!! Landing practice tip from me: If I don't have at least 15 pounds of weight in the baggage compartment and I am flying by myself I run out of trim in my Ovation. Thoughts? Same here. Probably need more like 30 lbs back there. One also has a tendency to have an approach speed a bit higher than should be when light. Hard to slow down to 70 kts when landing weight is around 2600 lbs (essentially M20J approach speed). I have found that the best landings come when one is actually able to feel a short period of ground effect while applying back trim simultaneously. The trim could certainly have been set a bit differently in the Ivation such that one does not "run out" Not sure if that helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 27, 2022 Report Share Posted September 27, 2022 Running out of trim doesn’t sound right… But, if we aren’t privy to all the weights in the front seats, it would be hard to say how much to put in the trunk… This is why we have a WnB app… PP thoughts only, not a CFI… -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_M20R Posted September 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2022 13 hours ago, carusoam said: Running out of trim doesn’t sound right… But, if we aren’t privy to all the weights in the front seats, it would be hard to say how much to put in the trunk… This is why we have a WnB app… PP thoughts only, not a CFI… -a- The trim in the Ovation 1 I have behaves differently than every other Mooney I have owned (J, 2 K's, and two Bravos). In all the other Mooneys all one had to do was to press the trim switch up as one started the flare and without any yoke inputs they would all do roll-on landings. No tire squeeling at all, just quiet roll-on. With this Ovation after full trim up one has to still add a bit of back pressure on the yoke. It seems that other Ovation owners experience the same. A case of oil and some other paraphernalia in the back is a good fudge factor without having to go into W&B app. Helps a bit with cruise performance as well.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech Posted September 28, 2022 Report Share Posted September 28, 2022 Be careful rolling in all that trim. A go around with full up trim can be an experience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 28, 2022 Report Share Posted September 28, 2022 I have only done many go-arounds in the O… Trimmed for landing is definitely different than trimmed for Go around… I am surprised, each time During the GA, that the trim switch is so strong…. 1) Holding attitude 2) Adjusting power 3) Reconfiguring 4) Waiting for the trim motor to finish, still waiting for the trim motor to finish… 5) Getting the arm exercised 6) Maintaining airspeed and climb rates… My thumb must think if it pushes the trim button harder, the trim motor will accelerate…. Running the trim to the end… also comes with some mechanical issues… the system is supposed to sense the end of the line…. But, if it doesn’t…. Jams become a fear of the mechanical mind…. Your CFI may teach… don’t fly with the trim… Your mechanical friends will say don’t run the trim to the end… especially with the electric motor… Just things to consider… the M20C wasn’t much different… except none of the electric motors… hmmmmm….. if only I could practice moving my yoke as smoothly as the trim motor does…. PP thoughts only, no guidance being offered… Best regards, -a- 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_M20R Posted September 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2022 On 9/28/2022 at 12:27 AM, hypertech said: Be careful rolling in all that trim. A go around with full up trim can be an experience. It can be, however one should practice some touch and goes that end up in full trim to get the "whole" experience of having to correct for landing trim settings (elevator up and rudder neutral) and therefore significant pitch up as well as left yaw on takeoff. No surprises that way when doing the real thing. Missed approach is a different animal since the pitch trim does not have to be changed as much. Rudder trim still needs adjustment though. Doing push ups on a regular basis are good for a Mooney pilot... Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_M20R Posted September 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2022 On 9/28/2022 at 12:45 AM, carusoam said: I have only done many go-arounds in the O… Trimmed for landing is definitely different than trimmed for Go around… I am surprised, each time During the GA, that the trim switch is so strong…. 1) Holding attitude 2) Adjusting power 3) Reconfiguring 4) Waiting for the trim motor to finish, still waiting for the trim motor to finish… 5) Getting the arm exercised 6) Maintaining airspeed and climb rates… My thumb must think if it pushes the trim button harder, the trim motor will accelerate…. Running the trim to the end… also comes with some mechanical issues… the system is supposed to sense the end of the line…. But, if it doesn’t…. Jams become a fear of the mechanical mind…. Your CFI may teach… don’t fly with the trim… Your mechanical friends will say don’t run the trim to the end… especially with the electric motor… Just things to consider… the M20C wasn’t much different… except none of the electric motors… hmmmmm….. if only I could practice moving my yoke as smoothly as the trim motor does…. PP thoughts only, no guidance being offered… Best regards, -a- I always really like your comments Anthony!!! All of the above are to the point. I wish that in my Ovation the trim would not end up at the top of travel when landing. All my other Mooneys it ended up below the top of travel and would have landings roll on. Yep, "don't fly the trim". Adjust trim to relieve yoke pressure for attitude desired. Except for landing as one flares. Much smoother than working the yoke, more so in a long body with the more sensitive pitch response. Of course, in Mooneys without electric trim will need to have adjusted trim for approach speed attitude and on flare do manual yoke inputs. All of these will be short body and also lighter Mooneys... Regards, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lloyd Posted September 30, 2022 Report Share Posted September 30, 2022 Chris, prior to my elevators being repaired, with just me aboard the trim would be near the top on short final. After repair, trim is at the top. I went over the bungee adjustments in detail with the mechanic and found the adjustments he made were in spec. Might just be a matter of adjustment at one end of the scale or the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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