insurance question--PIC during instrument training

[rbridges]

Who is considered PIC during instrument training?  My insurance will cover pilots with enough hours overall and in type.  My CFII got another job, and he recommended a friend that doesn't have enough mooney time for insurance to cover as a pilot. 

My question is this.  Would I be considered PIC (for insurance purposes) during instrument training or is the CFII? 

[Parker_Woodruff]

If you have met the requirements to fly solo and fly with passengers under your insurance policy, you are covered. You can log PIC for any time you are sole manipulator in an aircraft for which you are rated in category and class. 

[Parker_Woodruff]

That logging PIC technicality still applies when you are receiving instruction.  Your CFI-I is also PIC when giving instruction.

[M20F]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Your CFI-I is also PIC when giving instruction.

[eldeano]

As long as you are the sole minipulator of the controls, you are PIC. FAR 61.51 explains it all.  As far as insurance is concerned I would verify with your agent.

[danb35]

As long as you are the sole manipulator, you can log PIC, which is what FAR 61.51(e) discusses.  Whether you are PIC (defined in FAR 1.1) depends on what you and your CFII agree on before the flight.  Note, though, that if you decide that you are PIC, you won't be able to operate under an IFR clearance (so your CFII would need to be PIC for at least your IFR XC).

The FAA and NTSB have written, in several opinions, that a CFI on an instructional flight is always PIC.  Then they've said in other places that this isn't the case.  Go figure.

[Becca]

Is there a limitation to just naming your new instructor on your insurance, that way he won't have to meet open pilot requirements?  That will actually give him more protection, and probably shouldn't effect your rate.

[jetdriven]

The CFI is usually the FAR part 1 PIC because he is the final authority to the safety of the flight. They will always get him if something goes wrong. (he doesnt have to be in the airplane for a student pilot, either).

However, if the case of a rated pilot recieving instruction in his owned aircraft, that blurs somewhat.  just as Dan says, the student can "serve" as PIC (sole maipulator of controls) but CFI is the FAR part 1 PIC because he is giving instruction, and is required for the instrument rating. If taking a BFR, then the CFI is not required, so better to agree who is FAR part 1 PIC before the flight, not after you come to a stop in a field.  A unique case is where a PPL applicant is taking a flight test. The examiner briefs the applicant he is the PIC of the flight, even though he is not rated in the aircraft yet.

Of course all "he" terms are meant to imply both sexes.

If not sure, get the CFI named on the policy, as Becca pointed out. We found out our chosen CFI had 50 hours in the M20F, but the insurance company refused to count that as "time in type".   Of course the night before taking posession of the aircraft. We wouldnt have been insured with him unles named on the policy.

[rbridges]

I don't know why I didn't think about it in the first place.  I'll call to have him added.  That way there are no questions.

Thanks for the replies.