six gear collapses & gear ups in one week

[jlunseth]

On 5/12/2020 at 9:42 PM, aviatoreb said:

Fly a thousand hours and I bet you will have a time that may well break through one or more of your just in case layers of fool proof.  Maybe a go around called by tower.  Maybe a bad day. Maybe a distracting passenger.  Maybe tower tells you to keep up speed in sequence which means leaving your gear until late - don't forget to get that gear down then!  Maybe you are practicing for your commercial license and working a power-off precision landing for the 10th time in a row and these require keeping the gear up until late....but don't forget to get that gear down.  Even though I am 99.999% of the time very very careful, I have found myself to be only very careful...to have found myself on final realizing - wait - my gear is still up.  I could see how it could happen.   Speed brakes btw help slow you down but also can interfere with the need to have gear down to get to flap speed.

Yup, one of those for me which I caught at about 50’ before I became a statistic.  Multiple distractions compounding each other. Best to get the gear down before you get close to the field, where there will be distractions.

[aviatoreb]

56 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Yup, one of those for me which I caught at about 50’ before I became a statistic.  Multiple distractions compounding each other. Best to get the gear down before you get close to the field, where there will be distractions.

Right - get it down early - so there is time to then check it later as you get close!

[bonal]

Not much you can do about a collapse other than staying on top of your maintenance and really giving your gear a good look on your pre flight inspection.  For me it's about priorities landing is secondary my main primary objective when approaching the airport and  descending is to get the speed down to gear speed. In that I mean putting the gear down is my goal it's my objective every thing else is secondary.  AWOS is already done monitoring traffic is on going primary goal is get the gear down, then shift gears to make the landing happen with additional checks to confirm gear is down. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by bonal

[tmo]

Have you considered something like X-Plane and actually going through the motions as you were in a real plane?  I know the two do not compare, but to me saying "Gas - check; Undercarriage - check" and so on does help in forming a habit.  At least I hope it does.  Quite possible I am burning in some bad habits at the same time, but I'd be doing that in N1H as well.

[irishpilot]

The gear ups are directly related to lack of standardized training and various levels of proficiency. Humans are creatures of habit. If you are a pilot who puts the gear down as you think of it, and it occurs at a different place in the pattern, you are at an elevated risk to forget. CFIs should be teaching repeatable habits that apply multiple aircraft.

I teach and fly this: in the VFR pattern, gear goes down midfield downwind, and I'm trimmed and on speed prior to turning base. No gear down = no turn to base. For instrument practice, I am configured, trimmed, and on-speed at the FAF or GS Intercept. Regardless of approach, gear is reconfirmed short final.

Use GUMPS, GRUMPS or whatever neumonic, just as long as it's done exactly the same every time. For us CFI/IIs, we need to ensure pilots execute positive habits.

Finally, I don't care if you have 100 hrs or 10,000 - everyone need refresher training. BFR isn't enough.

Fly safe!

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[philiplane]

There were two more Mooney gear ups over the weekend, one M20E in Erie Colorado, and an M20R in Mena Arkansas. And one gear collapse on the taxiway after landing in Crestview Florida.

And an M20C ran out of gas and landed in a field in Cherokee, Oklahoma. We're still running out of gas? With gas prices as low as they are?

Four more Mooney incidents in four days. 2020 will be a record breaking year at this pace.

[cliffy]

Anyone know how to run the numbers of gearups that happen throughout the entire GA fleet every year?

Is the problem centric on Mooneys or is it homogeneous  across the board of all brands? 

Do we have a Mooney/Mooney pilot problem or do we have a pilot/airplane problem?

"Imagine if you will" (Rod Serling?)  you are one of the handful of underwriters in the field of aviation insurance watching this unfold every week!

[bonal]

Not good,. What's going on here. I wonder if all that's going on and perhaps a lack of flying is causing distraction from underlying stress 

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, bonal said:

Not good,. What's going on here. I wonder if all that's going on and perhaps a lack of flying is causing distraction from underlying stress 

A while back a friend in the aviation insurance business said that when the economy is good more people come out and fly and buy airplanes, so more accidents happen.   I suspect that people being off work more or "working from home" combined with cheap fuel is perhaps having a similar effect.

 

[kortopates]

4 hours ago, cliffy said:

Anyone know how to run the numbers of gearups that happen throughout the entire GA fleet every year?

Is the problem centric on Mooneys or is it homogeneous  across the board of all brands? 

Do we have a Mooney/Mooney pilot problem or do we have a pilot/airplane problem?

"Imagine if you will" (Rod Serling?)  you are one of the handful of underwriters in the field of aviation insurance watching this unfold every week!

you can get the numbers of the FAA database here: https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:12:::NO:::

Its not easy though, there is no column for gear up, their under Approach and all forms of Landing phases of flight, one has to review each narrative to find out. There were a total of 47 incidents last year, most gear up or gear failures, but we can't search the database for 2020 - we 2020 we only have access to the last 10 days.

I doubt this year will standout. Personally what I think we may be seeing now is a spike due to the pandemic and the resulting rusty pilots going up after not flying for a couple months. We've always seen 1-2 mishaps per week during the flying season. 

[philiplane]

Two more Mooney incidents over the weekend. An M20K gear up in Lebanon Missouri, and an M18 landed and ended up on its side in Lancaster Texas.

It seems as though Mooney pilots are taking the lead in gear incidents over Comanche pilots, who used to have the most gear ups and gear collapses. I think last year the ratio was 4 Mooneys per Comanche gear incident. 

[cliffy]

If the ratio is that high I wonder if there is a common attribute or physiological thread among the Mooney gear up pilots?

I can't be just lack of training.  

 

[tmo]

Per capita (of flying Comanches vs Moonies)?

[Ibra]

7 hours ago, cliffy said:

If the ratio is that high I wonder if there is a common attribute

Long runways with lot of headwind and distraction? hard to land gear up in calm short runway but easy to do so in a long busy place (talking about myself here, luckily gear horn saved the day)

[philiplane]

A Mooney M20K landed fast, ran off the end of the runway, and into an embankment yesterday in Honesdale PA.

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, philiplane said:

A Mooney M20K landed fast, ran off the end of the runway, and into an embankment yesterday in Honesdale PA.

I was looking at this one this morning. Owner was from Maryland.  I wondered if the pilot tried to land straight in on the GPS approach. Its aligned with runway 36, but doesn't have straight-in min's which is a big clue right there. Straight in requires a descent rate of 8.5 degrees from the  FAWP. Diving for the runway is one easy way to get into a hot over run landing but that's just one possibility.  Another is the fact that the 2986 x 50 long runway is reduced to only ~2400' long runway in both directions from 500'+ displaced thresholds on both ends due to trees. That loss of 500' of runway changes it from a moderate length runway to a short runway for most pilots.

[carusoam]

Hmmm...

Involving an insurance guy to help us figure out what we could do better with the alleged high numbers of GU landings in the Mooney community...

...could reveal some insight to what is going on...
 

MS has an insurance guy that really liked his Mooney... and knows it really well...

Can I invite The MS insurance guy to discuss?

I live in fear of a GU landing... and my GU system is really loud... Did I mention, I live in fear of... 

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

We all should be living with a healthy fear of a GU landing! We all struggle to catch our mistakes before they lead to GU incidents or worse. IMO Our best insurance is to do whatever it takes to ensure it will take a lot of successive mistakes before we fail to correct in time.

 

 

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[philiplane]

Made it through the weekend with only one Mooney, an M20J, geared up in Muskegon Michigan.

[philiplane]

A list of the gear ups per 1000 registrations in the US, from 2005-2015. 

[Bob]

After having 800 hrs in my 231, came way to close to gear up this weekend.  Not sure really how close, will not share the inch report from fellow friend/pilot. However he did immediatly inspect my blade tips and all is good!

Factors: not flying enough lately, fatigue before flight, future workload & tasks on my mind, bounced around, avoiding storms and precip at destination, 15-25 kt crosswind with preferred runway changing every 5 min and a straight in approach. 

Destination airport frequented. Gump's check done early at 2 mile final with gear item left open.  Rechecked AWOS on final. Never did second Gumps.  

Felt plane not slowing properly and checked gear switch.  Saw the word UP next to gear switch and executed a go-around and landing.

Ways to avoid:  Reduce workload, fly full pattern and NEVER FLY DO A STRAIGHT IN VFR APPROACH!

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Bob

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, Bob said:

After having 800 hrs in my 231, came way to close to gear up this weekend.  Not sure really how close, will not share the inch report from fellow friend/pilot. However he did immediatly inspect my blade tips and all is good!

Factors: not flying enough lately, fatigue before flight, future workload & tasks on my mind, bounced around, avoiding storms and precip at destination, 15-25 kt crosswind with preferred runway changing every 5 min and a straight in approach. 

Destination airport frequented. Gump's check done early at 2 mile final with gear item left open.  Rechecked AWOS on final. Never did second Gumps.  

Felt plane not slowing properly and checked gear switch.  Saw the word UP next to gear switch and executed a go-around and landing.

Ways to avoid:  Reduce workload, fly full pattern and NEVER FLY DO A STRAIGHT IN VFR APPROACH!

 

 

Interesting and thanks for sharing. We were just discussing further above that a stabilized straight in may make it the most difficult approach to land gear up since without a strong head wind its may not be possible to maintain a stabilized 3 degree descent rate without pulling power below the level the throttle switch gear warning comes on one would need to be coming well above normal approach speed. Did your cross wind include a pretty good head wind, or where you coming pretty fast? or something else?  

But yes, the last gear down check on short final is critical and glad to hear it saved the day! Technology can also provide great insurance and I really appreciate my P2 Audio advisory system being my final backup from landing GU  https://www.p2inc.com/audioadvisory.asp If the gear isn't down at 85 kts it tells me so in plain English. 

[Ibra]

4 hours ago, philiplane said:

A list of the gear ups per 1000 registrations in the US, from 2005-2015. 

C172RG & C182RG, I guess that has to do with C172 fixed gear familiarity? or drag flying profile?  

[Bob]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Interesting and thanks for sharing. We were just discussing further above that a stabilized straight in may make it the most difficult approach to land gear up since without a strong head wind its may not be possible to maintain a stabilized 3 degree descent rate without pulling power below the level the throttle switch gear warning comes on one would need to be coming well above normal approach speed. Did your cross wind include a pretty good head wind, or where you coming pretty fast? or something else?  

But yes, the last gear down check on short final is critical and glad to hear it saved the day! Technology can also provide great insurance and I really appreciate my P2 Audio advisory system being my final backup from landing GU  https://www.p2inc.com/audioadvisory.asp If the gear isn't down at 85 kts it tells me so in plain English. 

Yes to all, a tiny bit fast and also headwind.  One factor is that I just had an annual and retracted the gear many times.  I believe that  may have weakened the aged warning horn.  My next flight was to test the gear buzzer to see if it was working, without checking or toughing anything.  It works and buzzes at 17 in, but is not as loud as it should be.  Hear it well with the headset off, but have to listen hard to hear with headset.  The buzzer issue is not the problem, but if working properly would have warned me early of my failure.  

Also is the buzzer fed to the audio panel?  thought came to mind, but have not checked anything yet.

I  am now looking for backup warning options. Thanks for the link!

[kortopates]

4 minutes ago, Bob said:

Also is the buzzer fed to the audio panel?  thought came to mind, but have not checked anything yet.

No its not, its located above your head behind one of the 2 speaker grills along with the Stall device and a third for your AP beeps you hear.  If it's not working properly, its under $30 for the unit from any of the popular electronics outlets.

The P2 Audio Advisory system is coming into your headsets. There are other similar options, but the P2 is the best of the bunch IMO in part because the English warning can't be missed and you won't have false annoying alarms.