six gear collapses & gear ups in one week

[FlyingDude]

On 7/15/2021 at 7:02 PM, A64Pilot said:

A lot of money was spent and all we got from it was an Acronym called SLOJ or Sudden Loss of Judgement.

In Italian we have a word for it: rincoglionimento.  Could happen to every one.  If you are rincoglionito, your brain is out of service and you are not responsible for your actions (though law still holds you liable...)

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

In Italian we have a word for it: rincoglionimento.  Could happen to every one.  If you are rincoglionito, your brain is out of service and you are not responsible for your actions (though law still holds you liable...)

That's an interesting concept--not responsible for your actions, but still liable for them. I'm confused!

[cliffy]

Hank

 

Maybe you have rincoglionimento!!!  :-)

[T. Peterson]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:25 AM, cliffy said:

Just a couple of thoughts-

It would be interesting to see a study of the age  breakdown of those who have landed gear up;

Maybe there is a correlation.

 

Secondly, for most, doing pattern work with T&Gs is NOT routine flying. Unless you are a flight instructor doing primary students all the time, your "routine" has changed. You are now in a different world than you usually fly in. 

We don't usually take off, clean up, climb, level off, slow down, configure, keep track of other traffic, make closely spaced radio calls, etc, all in a short period of time. 

Its actually hard work to do successive T&Gs! Especially in a complex aircraft as opposed to a Cessna 150.

On every landing approach you are now thinking ahead to how you will be doing the next takeoff instead of rolling out looking for the turnoff (a break in routine). A different way of thinking you're not usually doing. 

Changing your "routine" way of flying!

Its a different sequence of events you're not usually in. 

Distractions from the every day routine flying event.  

Distractions cause accidents

Not to say T&Gs shouldn't be done (I've even done them in 727s and 737s) BUT maybe given a lot more thought for the risk involved.  In the 727/737 we briefed thoroughly and we had a Check Airman in the right seat who's "routine" was instructing T&Gs. Never had an issue. Airline flying was actually easy as everything was a "routine" way of doing everything. Issues that caused a break in the "routine" we trained for. Follow the check list and things that don't match stick out like a sore thumb in the "routine". 

It can be done but it needs a different way of thinking than just jumping in and doing T&Gs.  If you are not used to doing it then you'd better give it a lot of thought before you just go out and do it. 

 

Good points all, but somewhere in that pattern whether T&G or first visual of the day you are going to be in the location where you always drop the gear. Keep following the routine be it midfield or abeam the numbers.

[philiplane]

Preceded by an M20P N102PT gear up in Madras Oregon on May 1st. And then an M20K, N262MK, crashed in a cemetery on May 8th, in Manville NJ. So the Mooney fleet continues to shrink...

Edited May 16, 2023 by philiplane

[T. Peterson]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Another Mooney gear-up landing on Sunday afternoon. N9076V, a 1969 M20F, landed gear up at KMLB, Melbourne Orlando. The ADSB tracks appear to show a straight in landing with no pattern.  @T. Peterson comments above about "but somewhere in that pattern whether T&G or first visual of the day you are going to be in the location where you always drop the gear. Keep following the routine be it midfield or abeam the numbers."  That is good advice if you actually fly the pattern.  Straight in landings are where routine falls apart and things are forgotten.

This plane is owned by the "Dunedin Flying Club" at Clearwater Air Park.  They have at lease 2 pilots - maybe more. I suspect that the Club will be raising their rates "if" they ever have a plane in the future - "if" it was properly insured for today's prices for repair.

N9076V Flight Tracking and History - FlightAware

ADS-B Exchange - track aircraft live (adsbexchange.com)

N9076V (1969 MOONEY M20F owned by DUNEDIN FLYING CLUB INC) Aircraft Registration - FlightAware

Dunedin Flying Club

Good point. Routine can’t cover everything.

[cliffy]

It would also be interesting to see them list currency of experience

How many hours in past 90 days and 1 year.

I'm postulating that many do not fly very often. 

We have a couple Mooneys on my airport that don't fly 20 hrs per year. 

[Parker_Woodruff]

2 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Not surprising. Mooney owners, who  in general cherish the brand and tend to hang on to to their planes, are getting older. More hangar queens as health and finances decline. And you rarely (more like “never”) see a Mooney used for training or commercial purposes. So pilot currency in Mooney’s will struggle - probably get worse. Accident and gear up rates will likely suffer. And insurance rates for the brand will continue to be pressured. 
 

@Parker_Woodruff - do you have any statistics or projections?

A few things:

I think we attract a pretty good group of clients at Airspeed (our loss ratio seems significantly better than what the overall personal aircraft market is).  Our typical client seems likely to participate in MooneySpace, the Mooney Pilots Facebook group, etc.  Most of our clients fly a good amount.

I have noticed we still get a good amount of younger owners.

But you mentioned insurance rates for the brand...Mooneys have some of the best insurance rates for Single Engine Retractable gear.  The newer Mooneys, especially, get very low rates...lots of companies compete for that business.  They don't have the gear stigma that Piper Comanches do.  There are thousands of Mooneys more than Commanders.  Parts damaged in typical claims can be found one way or another for almost every Mooney produced.

I think it's time for an insurance market update post. 

[carusoam]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:52 PM, philiplane said:

Preceded by an M20P N102PT gear up in Madras Oregon on May 1st. And then an M20K, N262MK, crashed in a cemetery on May 8th, in Manville NJ. So the Mooney fleet continues to shrink...

wait a sec…

another Mooney at central Jersey airport, Manville NJ?

I just posted a YT video interview with the pilot of the last one….

Best regards,

-a-

New ownership, reported in March of this year… engine out, on T/O…  more of a gear ripped off than a gear up….

https://www.tapinto.net/towns/hillsborough/sections/police-and-fire/articles/plane-taking-off-from-hillsborough-airport-crashes-into-cemetery

Inviting @Alan Fox to see if he is familiar with this one…

[skykrawler]

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/316605