shawnd Posted May 5, 2020 Report Posted May 5, 2020 Hi there folks, @carusoam haven't forgotten https://themooneyflyer.com/cfi.html, but given the urgency, wanted to check here first if someone w/ turbo experience near Phoenix, AZ is willing to go up and flight test a M20K 231. Timeframe is tomorrow or at the latest Wednesday before it goes in the shop. I will PM details/specifics, and of course, will pay for your time. Thanks, Shawn Quote
shawnd Posted May 5, 2020 Author Report Posted May 5, 2020 Called Jim Price (of MooneyFlyer fame) and he is willing to do this. Is there any specific set of items to check for in flight? So far I have: Make sure it tracks correctly on the different axis Instruments are functional Nav/COM operations AP operations JPI reporting Taking tons of pictures. Thanks! Quote
carusoam Posted May 5, 2020 Report Posted May 5, 2020 Shawn, If you have one of those fancy portable WAAS sources... and your iPad with the CloudAhoy app... You can collect the entire flight’s details... it is really easy to review the flight afterwards in the comfort of your own home... Do your best to have the pilot fly a predictable flight... something that probably needs to be discussed in advance... T/O distances are meaningful... Climb rates are meaningful... Speed in level flight is meaningful... Climb rate at altitude is meaningful... Enjoying the flight is meaningful... Landing distance is a measure of the pilot’s skills... that may not be readily transferable... It helps to do your homework... know your DA, and temperatures at various altitudes... Have a blast.... An ordinary M20K is quite the performance machine... Enjoy, -a- 1 Quote
shawnd Posted May 5, 2020 Author Report Posted May 5, 2020 Just now, carusoam said: Landing distance is a measure of the pilot’s skills... that may not be readily transferable... Given Jim's experience, I am going to be very hard pressed to match his pilot skills - probably for decades! Thanks for the tips! 1 Quote
carusoam Posted May 5, 2020 Report Posted May 5, 2020 If you are buying a plane... That has a printable ad... print it... make a checklist of every item in the ad... Let the seller know... if he listed it... you expect it to be working... (negotiation 102) It is super challenging to hit on all the topics without a plan... put a plan together... If you intend to use an AP that does coupled approaches... you want to fly an approach... ADFs are pretty cool... tune a favorite radio... see if the needle points that way... Use each nav box, and display... Same test for WAAS based approaches.... one GTN has VOR, ILS, and WAAS in it... make sure it is all connected... Sooner or later you are going to run out of time... Not everything can be tested that deeply ... In this case you really want the plane... and there may be some things that go untested... Write up a purchase agreement of all the things you want on this plane to be working... as advertised... Price and forward looking details... Follow them up during your PPI before buying the plane, and Transition Training after you buy the plane... These are private pilot thoughts only, not a mechanic or plane sales guy thoughts... Let us know Mr. Price’s input after you have seen the plane... It would be great to hear what he saw... Flying with people that really know Mooneys is a blast... you can learn so much in such a short period of time... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
MIm20c Posted May 5, 2020 Report Posted May 5, 2020 I think you’re going after the right plane. I’d definitely check the 480 to make sure it’s working properly. The mx20 is kind of a paperweight (lots of bad screens that can have problems hrs into a flight) but if the owner still has his xm subscription active make sure it still works. I’d say act fast with the proper maintenance checks but it looks like you have that covered. Good luck! Quote
shawnd Posted May 5, 2020 Author Report Posted May 5, 2020 @carusoam Yep - sent him an initial checklist organized by flight leg. Will report back how it turns out. Cheers @MIm20c Good investigative work Plans are to fly it around for a year or two, spend money on the engine and then on avionics. If the MX20 breaks, I would like to switch to a Garmin 750 coupled with a remote audio controller. Of course, this all depends on if I end up getting the plane. Quote
shawnd Posted May 7, 2020 Author Report Posted May 7, 2020 Unfortunately, this deal didn’t work out. I will keep looking. Quote
carusoam Posted May 7, 2020 Report Posted May 7, 2020 Bummer... buying a plane is a chain of learning experiences... It gets more expensive and serious when you get to the PPI... Failed PPIs look expensive... but save tons of dough compared to buying the same plane without a PPI... Shawn, did you learn anything from this first experience? Have you fine tuned your search any? Best regards, -a- Quote
shawnd Posted May 7, 2020 Author Report Posted May 7, 2020 I learned a lot through this process, and I will chalk it up to a very positive experience. All parties involved were helpful and it’s a bummer it didn’t work out. Being forced to learn, I did pickup quite a bit of knowledge on the TSIO-360-GB/LB/MB engines. Though I am biased more towards a 252 now, I am still very open towards a good 231. Also curious, how the Rocket feels in the same short body. How much heavier is it compared to the 231/252s? Quote
carusoam Posted May 7, 2020 Report Posted May 7, 2020 Call the Rocket a mid-body and I can invite a couple of Rocket people that are around here often... just in case 10” here and there makes a significant difference... @aviatoreb and @Austintatious and a @FloridaMan come to mind... See shawn’s post above... looking into Ks and Rockets... Best regards, -a- Quote
shawnd Posted May 7, 2020 Author Report Posted May 7, 2020 True, I meant to say shorter body. I had the long body Bravos in mind. 1 Quote
FloridaMan Posted May 8, 2020 Report Posted May 8, 2020 @shawnd well, I lucked out with my m20f because someone else jumped on the plane I was trying to buy. As for handling, it’s not the length, it’s the wing loading and CG. My Rocket feels like an Ovation and my M20F feels more like an RV. I’m guessing you’re out west and need a turbo to get above the thermals. I don’t know your level of experience; I consider the Rocket to be an airplane to transition into from something similar and slower. In terms of operation, I have to do less stuff than I do with the m20f because automation is there with the autopilot and better avionics. At the same time, things happen faster and it is a less stable airplane; I’m guessing because of the weight and CG. The one noticeable difference is that you have to push the M20F to accelerate while you’re in the yellow, and you have to consciously work to slow down when you’re approaching the runway threshold. The Rocket is the exact opposite. When you get into the yellow and are descending, she wants to accelerate towards Vne, and when you’re on approach and drop below around 90kias, you have to either have an uncomfortably steep approach or carry power. In the M20F, you can chop power on downwind and land where you want to. 1 Quote
Austintatious Posted May 9, 2020 Report Posted May 9, 2020 Florida man, What power settings are you talking about when on approach in the rocket? I typically set about 15" and have trouble slowing down. Many times I am fully configured and speed brakes out at that power setting to stay on speed. I don't think one is supposed to pull power to idle in the rocket until the flair. Something about the counterweights being driven full deflection IIRC. 1 Quote
FloridaMan Posted May 9, 2020 Report Posted May 9, 2020 I’m usually 15” on final and chop and drop to land. Short runways with obstacles here. 2800-3500ft. Quote
shawnd Posted May 9, 2020 Author Report Posted May 9, 2020 Thanks @FloridaMan. Helpful insights! I think I leaning more towards the 252 / 231 to get more useful load and less gas consumption. Getting out of Seattle to any place fun requires a trek and hopping over stones. Likely will add TKS down the road as well so could use any weight saving measures possible. Quote
shawnd Posted May 12, 2020 Author Report Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) @FloridaMan@Austintatious Was researching rockets (yea I know, you guys planted the seed), and ran into this post: Is parts availability an issue for Rockets? Edited May 12, 2020 by shawnd put the wrong post link (updated to point to aviatoreb) Quote
Austintatious Posted May 12, 2020 Report Posted May 12, 2020 13 hours ago, shawnd said: @FloridaMan@Austintatious Was researching rockets (yea I know, you guys planted the seed), and ran into this post: Is parts availability an issue for Rockets? The air frame is just 231/252 parts. The engines are the same as on several different light twins out there. Rocket still supports the conversions for now, my rocket has a brand new exhaust manifold from them. Avgas disappearing is sort of a concern. They are working on a replacement and I doubt Avgas will go away without one available. That would strand too many aircraft. Quote
shawnd Posted May 12, 2020 Author Report Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Austintatious said: The air frame is just 231/252 parts. The engines are the same as on several different light twins out there. Rocket still supports the conversions for now, my rocket has a brand new exhaust manifold from them. Avgas disappearing is sort of a concern. They are working on a replacement and I doubt Avgas will go away without one available. That would strand too many aircraft. Yeah I was worried about the Rocket specific parts. It's good to know Rocket is still supporting the existing conversions. Cheers Quote
carusoam Posted May 12, 2020 Report Posted May 12, 2020 So many things in life to be worried about... What Mooney engines are no longer supported...? (Porsche) What airframes are sitting idle because of it..? (None) Covid-19 Makes this question seem a whole lot easier... Sure, there are going to be some engines that are more difficult to handle for some people.... compared to other people... That’s why the words bullet proof are used when discussing O360s... If you need a bullet proof engine... go O360... Technically, I don’t think they are really bullet proof... But swapping a cylinder off my old O360... took a couple of hours... Some engines take lots of planning in advance when it comes to OHs... others are sitting on a shelf and can be completed to your spec in two weeks... go IO550... or IO360... or O360... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote
FloridaMan Posted May 13, 2020 Report Posted May 13, 2020 Rocket support is far better than Mooney. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.