JPI engine monitor for 66 E

[ReconJon]

So had my oil temp gauge doing some crazy stuff yesterday while doing run-up and caused me to abort a take-off. Long story short I am sick of messing with these old gauges. I am wondering whether I should grab the 830 as I am not really hurting on panel space or is springing for the 900 really worth it. I would like to hear from 830 owners as to if they would recommend one or skip past it and the extra cash is worth the 900. Additionally, if anyone has a used one for sale....

[carusoam]

Jon,

This is more simple of what would you rather have...

The 830 is great for being a back-up instrument... works perfectly well... has some flexibility with the limits you can program...

The JPI is all about replacing the primary instruments you have and don’t like so much... being primary, the prices are expectedly higher...

For fun... and more in line with your question...

There are other suppliers like EI...

To use a JPI900 as a back-up instrument to the ships gauges...  no... not worth it.

I expect that my digital evolution will include a JPI900.... as a primary engine instrument system... include the cies fuel gauges with that...

Yes again, somebody posted a used JPI900 system for sale yesterday... a long body going through a digital evolution...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

I think most folks here will try to convince you to get the 930 so you can remove the factory gauges.  I won't.

I have a "limited" 830 with only EGT/CHT, OAT, and oil Temp/Press.  It's all I want or need.  I actually like the factory MP/FP and big round tach.  I don't 100% trust the original OT/OP, so that's why I added them to my 830, and they are more accurate displayed digitally.

The biggest reason I prefer the 830: if it goes on the fritz, I'm still safe and legal to fly.

 

[Ross Taylor]

Put me with @Andy95W - I've got all the original gauges in my '66 E and have a JPI EDM700.  As soon as JPI opens up again, I'm changing the front end out for a 730 and keeping all my old gauges.  I kind of like the redundancy and I'm not (yet) hurting for extra space.

I'm battling a bit of a high oil temp issue myself and it's nice to have two gauges telling me the same thing, so I'm pretty confident it's not a gauge issue.

[hammdo]

I wanted the edm 700 but, ran out of panel space. I have to go G3 and remove egt or cht  as the G3 is good for primary of both. May move suction gauge to the copilots side so I can have the G3 in its place...

-Don

[carusoam]

The picture of the used JPI900 that is for sale... is currently mounted on an O1’s panel... right where the existing MP, and RPM gauges are...

Its a beautiful thing...   

Oddly... the JPI doesn’t handle instrument vac...

Just another reason to pile onto the vac free panel logic... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Paul_Havelka]

So just a note to consider about your situation. If you get the 830 or any other non certified monitor your primary still technically needs to be functioning properly to be airworthy so long as that instrument is listed in your poh as required. 

[S.C.]

I’m having similar issues with my 65 C.  I had the fuel gauges refurbished, then the oil temp.  I do appreciate the beauty of the 50 year old gauges and generally hold to the “if it is not broken don’t fix it mindset.” That said, I’ve decided to take the plunge and go all in for the 900 and do the full replacement.    A bit of history that also helped me move forward with this decision was nearly having to overhaul the engine last annual (the engine has only 387 hours) because on cylinder had been running too lean. (My 20C is normally aspirated).  All things considered, for me the decision was easy.  I read many of the posts here and appreciate the different opinions, just sharing mine in the hope it helps.

 

-Steve

[jlunseth]

The 930 that is certified as primary is a "system" not just the display.  It includes a Remote Alert Display, which is a small strip on the panel that displays the critical data such as MP, RPM.  It is intended as a backup to the main display should that fail for some reason.  

I have had mine for a decade and have found two instances where the whole system can fail.  First, if your charging system for the aircraft goes down, or the whole electrical goes down, or you need to fly with the Master off for some reason, you have no power at all to the JPI system.  However, the same applies to the factory strip gauges that are electrical so I don't think it makes much difference. If there is a transponder and wiring in the factory gauge system you lose the gauge if you lose power.

Second, I have had a problem where I sent the JPI in to get it upgraded to work with CiES sensors, and when it came back it had an autodim circuit.  There has been a known issue where the autodim dims the system to black and it is not recoverable.  I believe this has been fixed in the newer systems, mine must have been right in the problem time frame.  A few others have seen the issue. The autodim takes out both the main display and the RAD.

Other than the autodim issue, which is fixed as I understand it, I have not found any other failure mode that would not affect the factory gauges in the same way, so I see no benefit in keeping the factory gauges. The primary certified JPI already has a backup for the main display.

[gsxrpilot]

If you like doing the job so much, you'd like to do it twice, then the 830 is a good solution.  

If the problem is that the old gauges are failing periodically and you're tired of dealing with it. The 830 doesn't seem to be any solution at all. You still have to have all the factory gauges fully functional for the airplane to be airworthy. So the only thing the 830 buys you, is the peace of mind for the short period of time between your factory gauge failing in flight and getting on the ground. If the factory gauge fails and you're on the ground, you're not legal to take off until it's fixed. So the 830 isn't doing you any good there. And if you land with a failed gauge you're not legal to take off again until it's repaired. Of course if the 830 fails then you are still legal to fly. But if that's the failure you're worried about, it's much cheaper not to install it in the first place.

If the problem is the factory gauges, the solution is the EDM900, or CGR-P/C combo, or some others that are more expensive and take up more room. Don't get confused between the 900 and the 930. The only difference is the 930 is a larger screen and costs more. The 900 is also certified Primary for all engine instruments and fuel gauges.

There is no solution on the market that allows for an engine gauge to fail and you still be legal to fly. That might be because of the old adage that a man with two watches never knows what time it is. So if you're going to be beholden to working engine gauges to maintain a good dispatch rate, it only makes sense to install reliable gauges. Today, the best option we have is the modern, digital, Primary certified, engine monitor.

[CWM20f]

I put a 830 in when I did engine overhaul a few years ago.  If I could go back it would be a 930/900.   Instal is almost the same and it’s all I look at for any engine info. anyway.  As gsxrpilot and others have said - can’t fly if original gauges are inop anyway.   Which can happen more often than we like. 

[chrixxer]

I did an 830 a couple of years ago because it already had a 700 that was fritzing (though it turned out it wasn't the 700 that was the issue; it was a bad factory CHT probe) and it was a cheap, pin-compatible, upgrade to the 730 ... But then of course, "as long as we're in there," the FS-450 was removed, the -730 got sensors added to make it an 830... I should have just gone 900/930 and been done with it. Pennywise...

[MIm20c]

I use both and have the same number of hours behind each of them.  I utilize them exactly the same when taking off, setting power/mixture, etc. I glance at the factory gauges for a split second a few times during the flight and at startup but 99% of the time the 830 provides the info. 
I would also look for a used 830 or new 730 and try to find used MP and RPM sensors for it.  It’s harder for a used 900/930 because normally they have to go back to JPI to reprogram it for your plane. There was a reasonable deal on a used 930 a few months back on BT (that I’m guessing will be installed on a bravo soon) I almost jumped on but in the end I like my 830 too much. 

[Lionudakis]

I've installed many JPI700, 730,830's over the years, and many have been upgraded to the 900's to free up panel space, get more functions, and many other reasons. The point being, you'll eventually wish you did ; at least most do. To each his own.  I have a 900 in my own, and after a fuel gauge went TU, I did the upgrade and Cies fuel sensors. It is well worth the money.  

[gsxrpilot]

There's a reason you can find used 830's and 730's for sale but almost never a 900 or 930. 

[ReconJon]

Well I really appreciate all the responses guys, I will be doing the 900. Gonna go grab some more 100’s to light on fire and throw off the dock...wait thats the boat...into the hangar I mean.

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

If you like doing the job so much, you'd like to do it twice, then the 830 is a good solution.  

I'm in the do it twice camp...

I put in the 830 about 2 1/2 years ago. All the other gauges were working fine, but after my first 100+ hours in the plane I wanted to have the additional information the monitor would provide. I didn't want to lay out the extra money at the time for the 900. Fast forward to today and I'm still very happy with the 830, however I decided that in the upcoming panel work I am going to do I wanted to remove the old factory gauges so I took advantage of the rebate JPI at the beginning of the  year and bought the 900 and CiES senders. That is all sitting on the shelf in my hangar waiting to go in the plane this year. When it does I'll have a used 830 coming out that will be for sale.

Incidentally I also have a new in the box EI R-1 Tach that was purchased as a replacement for my old mechanical tach, but with the shift to doing the 900 I won't be needing it.

[Oldguy]

32 minutes ago, ReconJon said:

Well I really appreciate all the responses guys, I will be doing the 900. Gonna go grab some more 100’s to light on fire and throw off the dock...wait thats the boat...into the hangar I mean.

Dock/boat, barn/horse, or hangar/plane. There is one of those combos you cannot stop feeding for a while.

I am in the did-the-830-now-doing-the-900 group. Glad you are skipping the extra cash outlay and going to the 900.

One of the MS members, @Jeev, often has some great prices on JPI gear. He beat every price I could find when I was looking for my 900. Check in with him.

[Ragsf15e]

14 hours ago, Andy95W said:

I think most folks here will try to convince you to get the 930 so you can remove the factory gauges.  I won't.

I have a "limited" 830 with only EGT/CHT, OAT, and oil Temp/Press.  It's all I want or need.  I actually like the factory MP/FP and big round tach.  I don't 100% trust the original OT/OP, so that's why I added them to my 830, and they are more accurate displayed digitally.

The biggest reason I prefer the 830: if it goes on the fritz, I'm still safe and legal to fly.

 

But if your original gages go on the fritz, you’re not...

[Andy95W]

6 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

But if your original gages go on the fritz, you’re not...

So that puts me in the same boat as those here who've had issues with their 930s.  And I saved more than $3000.  I can overhaul all of my gauges 4 times for that money (and I actually prefer the old MP gauge with the old-style Mooney bird logo.)

I begrudge no one their desire to replace all of their old factory gauges with an EDM 930.  I simply prefer my route.

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, Andy95W said:

So that puts me in the same boat as those here who've had issues with their 930s.  And I saved more than $3000.  I can overhaul all of my gauges 4 times for that money (and I actually prefer the old MP gauge with the old-style Mooney bird logo.)

I begrudge no one their desire to replace all of their old factory gauges with an EDM 930.  I simply prefer my route.

Yeah, I agree the big original gages are nice as long as you’re prepared to maintain them.  The 800 you’ve got provides extra capability in that it can record and shows all the chts/egts.  I definitely don’t fault that choice.  

I guess I think the 900/930 should be more reliable than the factory originals in the long run.  My 930 certainly has.  I’ve read the comments about people having problems with the “autodim”, but I just wanna think the digital tech should last longer and be supported longer.  All that said, I didn’t have to pay for mine, the previous owner did.  I’m not sure, but I could see myself doing what you did and saving the $$.
 

I suspect if we all had money to burn, we’d have a couple 10” screens with flight and engine information, a touchscreen gps and a digital autopilot.  Since we don’t have that kind of cash, adding the usefulness of a Jpi 800 while having to maintain the factory gages and saving one years worth of 100LL seems reasonable.

[gsxrpilot]

The difference in price between the 830 and the 900 is likely less than the cost of a couple of repairs to the 50 year old gauges the came with the airplane. With my M20C it didn't come with any engine monitor and there was no way I was spending for a 900... I bought a G2 instead which gave me EGT/CHT and Carb temp. It was a super nice instrument. But in the two years I owned that C I replaced the tach twice, the fuel gauges never worked reliably and overhauled the cluster once. All of that and the price of that G2 and I could have had the 900 and been done with it.

So when I bought the 252, it came with an EDM 700. But I budgeted in with the purchase price, to immediately install an EDM900 and remove all the factory gauges. Four years later it's never given me a minute of trouble. It's certainly increased the value of my airplane. Every one of my flights is saved with SavvyAnalysis. I get better range as I know within half of a gallon, my fuel situation at any given moment. But best of all, I'm not trying to maintain 35 year old gauges. There are plenty of other things on this 35 year old airplane that need maintaining. At least the engine gauges are sorted and done.

[Sean S]

Can't go wrong with the JPI900 and you will get a small increase in useful load by removing all the factory indicators. I would highly recommend the Ceis fuel senders at the same time.

[0TreeLemur]

23 hours ago, Bayern Speed said:

Can't go wrong with the JPI900 and you will get a small increase in useful load by removing all the factory indicators. I would highly recommend the Ceis fuel senders at the same time.

We did the JPI 900 and took out all the old gauges- plus kept all the flammable fluids forward of the firewall by installing the fp and op xducers in the engine compartment.  We kept the old 1946 GMC resistance fuel senders and calibrated them.  In flight we always compare the JPI indicated fuel quantity against the sight gauges mounted in the top fuel tank access panel.  The old resistance senders consistently read within 1 gallon of sight gauges.

[Bob_Belville]

I went with the 930 in my ‘66E 8 years ago. It’s just money. I’ve forgotten how much the 930 cost but I’ve enjoyed the functionality of the 930. Info is pulled together compared trying to scan the whole panel.


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