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I swore it could never happen to me....I was wrong....I was on my last day of night currency, so I went to the airport to do my night currency...did two stop and gos...all went well....then I decided to do a night practice under vfr a gps/autopilot approach...and I had some minor configuration issues...and a 35knott headwind and as a sole occupant I made mistakes...my speed should have clued me in ...I was trimmed for approach and yet my air speed was 15k over my approach speed...but it didn’t click...I came into final approach to the runway, and one of my great habits is that I always pull the throttle all the way back for a few seconds....I then added throttle again, but the sound of the gear alarm was unmistakable...I put my gear down and made a great landing.

i feel great, yet I am devastated...I need to re-examine my procedures and discipline to checklists GUMPS!

thank goodness for mooneyspace as I learn from everyone else’s experiences

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My transition instructor said "if it won't slow down, the gear is not down"

 

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Congrats!

Way to go Larry!

1) You proved that you ARE human. :)

2) It didn’t cost the big bucks.

Adding large doses of wind to the equation can really mix things up...

Thanks for sharing the details.

Gumps... and no landing until a green light is seen... (my idea for avoiding GU)

Best regards,

-a-

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Mistakes are inevitable. Training, adhering to check lists, reading and practice are my remedies to prevent a little mistake from becoming a big one. You recognized your error and took timely corrective action. Well done. Every now and then we scare ourselves but it keeps us safe.

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9 hours ago, Yetti said:

My transition instructor said "if it won't slow down, the gear is not down"

 

I also swore it could never happen to me to, but it happend. From my experience i can confirm, that your instructor was wrong...... It slowd down, no warning sound (approach with power, landing gear switch not komplet down....) 

P.s. just Prop strike, safe landing after goaround. 

20191118_143605.thumb.jpg.47fa3a081db2d32cac87c327fce61e66.jpg

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@larrynimmo - thank you for not raising our collective insurance rates ;) and, of course, congratulations on the save and keeping your cool.

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12 hours ago, larrynimmo said:

...then I decided to do a night practice under vfr a gps/autopilot approach...

That would be my hint, I only heard gear horn twice both on "short flights" (1st same as yours skipped gear but horned as I slowed down on downwind and 2nd short flight, ironically, to maintenance with horn on final), now, I just leave it down all time in short 15min bimble/excursion, only need 120kts and drag fuel bill is barely 2USG?

Or maybe it was bumpy?

Edited by Ibra

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10 hours ago, Yetti said:

My transition instructor said "if it won't slow down, the gear is not down"

He is right, irrespective of the headwind, you will have to slow it down in downwind (high wind) or in final (zero wind)

But one is left with the long final in big headwinds :)

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from my IFR training, the power settings I made dictated 85 knot approach....but I was at 101....red flag should have gone up.  I allowed the 35knot headwind displayed on the Aspen kind of make me not trust what I was seeing....which is really stupid.  at ground level there wasn't 5 knot of wind.

again, a red flag should have gone up...and I needed to  remember GUMPS check...no excuse!

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2 hours ago, brndiar said:

I also swore it could never happen to me to, but it happend. From my experience i can confirm, that your instructor was wrong...... It slowd down, no warning sound (approach with power, landing gear switch not komplet down....) 

P.s. just Prop strike, safe landing after goaround. 

20191118_143605.thumb.jpg.47fa3a081db2d32cac87c327fce61e66.jpg

I have about 4 gear checks that I do at different points.   Sometimes I wake up at night wondering if I did all the checks, and have to remind myself that I was able to roll the plane to the hangar.  so it is OK.

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Me too. The last one, before touch down (where I check 1, speed 2, green light) saved my Mooney and my a... Unfortunatelly  go-around was inkl. propstrike. Lesson learned: 1, never say never 2, full flaps are sufficient enough to slow the plane down. 3, with power approach there is no "warning horn".

Lg,m

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On 3/3/2020 at 7:34 PM, larrynimmo said:

I swore it could never happen to me....I was wrong....I was on my last day of night currency, so I went to the airport to do my night currency...did two stop and gos...all went well....then I decided to do a night practice under vfr a gps/autopilot approach...and I had some minor configuration issues...and a 35knott headwind and as a sole occupant I made mistakes...my speed should have clued me in ...I was trimmed for approach and yet my air speed was 15k over my approach speed...but it didn’t click...I came into final approach to the runway, and one of my great habits is that I always pull the throttle all the way back for a few seconds....I then added throttle again, but the sound of the gear alarm was unmistakable...I put my gear down and made a great landing.

i feel great, yet I am devastated...I need to re-examine my procedures and discipline to checklists GUMPS!

thank goodness for mooneyspace as I learn from everyone else’s experiences

- 1 for the bag of luck, +3 for the bag of experience. 

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On 3/4/2020 at 3:39 PM, Yetti said:

Sometimes I wake up at night wondering if I did all the checks, and have to remind myself that I was able to roll the plane to the hangar

Relax, need full night of sleep to have the mental and physical force to lower the gear and pull plane from the hangar, but you can stress about gear while flying :lol:

Does it happen to anyone coming on an early morning flight, finding gear switch down and wondering for 3s if that how it should be?

Edited by Ibra

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I wonder how well these gear warning systems work.  This P/N 2037 from Ohio has a ground sensing transducer of some sort detecting 100-150 AGL and has a voice audio alert http://www.flyingsafer.com/p-n-2037.html

I've also read of the P2 audio system based on airspeed http://www.p2inc.com/techsupport.asp

I think it's something to consider, if it would give some peace of mind.

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Congrats on your first post, firelog!

Sensing the ground is an older technology, before GPS...

But, the P2 system adds voice to the reminder so there isn’t the confusion of... hey, what’s that beep mean? I’ll get to it in a minute... after I land this plane...

:)

Best regards,

-a-

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On 3/4/2020 at 1:43 PM, brndiar said:

I also swore it could never happen to me to, but it happend. From my experience i can confirm, that your instructor was wrong...... It slowd down, no warning sound (approach with power, landing gear switch not komplet down....) 

P.s. just Prop strike, safe landing after goaround.

@brndiar Your comment reminds me of this. A go-around after a prop strike is very high risk. Actually, a no-go IMO.

@larrynimmo Your story (thanks for sharing) is a reminder of how important the GUMPS check is, but I have an additional remark: being based at a 600m strip (<2000ft), every second landing for me is a "short field". In fact, I am flying the final at the proverbial 1.3 x Vs0 but I am routinely looking for 1.2 x Vs0 over the fence (I read the weight-dependent Vs0 with every approach from a table, estimating my total weight from fuel and payload). Since the M20J is such a wonderfully clean airplane, I am consistently forced to pull power to idle about half a mile out - otherwise I would not reach my speed target over the fence. That, in combination with the gear warning horn (which in my airplane is tuned a little overly sensitive) will certainly remind me of a retracted gear. So what I'm trying to say, make every landing a short field landing, and there you go :-)

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33 minutes ago, Fry said:

A go-around after a prop strike is very high risk. Actually, a no-go IMO.

That is a hard call to make, I think the most reliable indicators are speed & 2 wheels, if one bounces and floats, go-around comes naturally (usually high speed & on 2 wheels) and even with a prop strikes it will be slight RPM drop not necessary an engine stop, even the pilot may not notice it

If one smashes and get stuck on ground with 3 wheels, yes personally I would do the same: no-go just cut power (if engine has not already stopped)

I never smashed a Mooney but bounced/go-around more times than I wished (the 600m runway has few 700ft pylons on its final)

Go-Around after strike on wooden propellers is much easier to judge, you will notice the prop is no longer there :lol:

This probably applies to propellers with composite, carbon, plastic... as well

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On 3/4/2020 at 8:39 AM, Yetti said:

I have about 4 gear checks that I do at different points.

I know  a lot of people that do multiple gear checks. I do one. If it is down, it isn't going back up by itself.

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Just now, KLRDMD said:

I know  a lot of people that do multiple gear checks. I do one. If it is down, it isn't going back up by itself.

I check radio frequencies about 2 times if not 3

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3 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

I know  a lot of people that do multiple gear checks. I do one. If it is down, it isn't going back up by itself.

I put the gear down, then check to make sure that I'm not remembering from my last flight. The final approach "point at the floor indicator" has saved me at least once.

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5 hours ago, Hank said:

I put the gear down, then check to make sure that I'm not remembering from my last flight. The final approach "point at the floor indicator" has saved me at least once.

I look at five different things but just do them once.

1) The gear  switch is down.

2) The gear light is green.

3) The mirror on the right wing tip shows the right main and nose gear down. 

4) The mirror on the left wing tip shows the left main and nose gear down.

5) The floor indicator indicates the gear is down.

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My final check is on short final when I can clearly see the numbers on the runway.  I say out loud, "Got the numbers, got a green light" as I also point to the numbers and the light.  That even works on an ILS to minimums.

I put the gear down at FAF or midfield downwind.  My goal is to do a GUMP check on downwind, base, and final.

My Garmin portable tells me "500" in my headset, so that's an additional check- I say it back and point with "500, green light."

And since I have a Johnson Bar, I do Don Maxwell's thumbnail check.

So then there was the time, on short final, I pointed at the numbers but didn't have a green light.  Went into reaction mode and did a go around.  As I'm swinging the Johnson Bar to put the gear up, I'm thinking- oh, yeah- Johnson Bar- duh. But nice reaction, I suppose!

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On 3/4/2020 at 8:39 AM, Yetti said:

I have about 4 gear checks that I do at different points.   Sometimes I wake up at night wondering if I did all the checks, and have to remind myself that I was able to roll the plane to the hangar.  so it is OK.

That’s where I’m at. I slow it to under 120 MPH, and the FIRST thing I do is drop the gear. From there, it’s GUMPS. Once at each approach to Downwind, On Downwind, Base and Final. Each DW, Base and Final also includes looking at the floor indicator, as well as checking the gear down switch and light. 

I haven’t had the opportunity to meet a CFI at our Aerodrome, but there’s a C182RG that went gear up about 5 months ago. Story goes that he’s a talker.... Was doing a X-Country with a partner in the plane, who was taught to drop the gear ASAP. CFI gave him kaka for dropping the gear when over the airport, flipped the gear switch back up, and then proceeded to yap about every reason why, and probably 100 other items. Result was the pilot and CFI not noticing the gear horn on final, and bellying the plane onto the runway. 

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