John Pleisse Posted November 24, 2011 Report Posted November 24, 2011 It's nice to see fair competition and not one, single company running away with it.
PTK Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Competition is beneficial to all involved. It controls pricing and increases the quality of the product for us. It also increases sales for the manufacturer. Win win situation.Garmin runs rebates from time to time and I'm sure with the 540 coming out the dynamics of the game will change a bit. Theoretically the 540 aims directly at Garmin's customer base. Existing, ie 530, and brand new potential customers. If you aren't in a hurry and can plan strategically good deals can be had. From personal experience I can honestly say that the pricing we see in the GA media from prominent avionics dealers around the country are too high and they by no means define the reaity in the market. MSRP's are exactly that, manufacturer suggested prices. They are not what dealers pay. There is room there to negotiate if you have the time.
johnggreen Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 There is one issue not discussed here that I can discern. Reliability. When I purchased my 2000 Bravo in January of 2005, I was actually looking to buy a new airplane. I had decided on the Cirrus to the point of standing at the fax to send in my deposit when I paused. The ONLY thing that caused me to not purchase the Ciirrus was the "reliability" of the Avidyne equipment. At that time, based on the info that I was receiving, the PFD/MFD installations in the Cirrus were experiencing 500-600 hours mean time between failure. No, I never had any hard statistics, but that was the scuttlebutt. In almost seven years now with the Bravo, my 430's have been flawless. To me, as much real IFR as I fly, I can't dismiss that kind of reliability. Bells and whistles mean little if they don't ting a ling and toot. I'm going to soon either upgrade the panel or the airplane, and I won't really look past anything but reliability on what drives my choice. Perhaps Avidyne can deliver Garmin comparable reliability. I certainly hope so. I too, like to see competition as it makes everyone better. But, I want to see time in service and hard numbers or brand loyalty to what has worked so well will rule the day. Now, that's my two cents. JGREEN
PTK Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 This was exactly what I was trying to say earlier which you very well identified John. Reliability. What price do we put on this notion of reliability? If the Avidyne 540 comes in at >13K installed from scratch and the GTN750 comes in at ~15K or even at 16K worst case what is the differential? We are talking a couple grand in the worst case scenario. How much is this reliability and piece of mind worth? Personally it's priceless but ymmv! It's a no brainer! Advantage: Garmin And to the people who say Garmin made the connectors different on purpose, etc. etc., between the GNS and the GTN that's not the case. The GTN is light years different than the GNS and incompatible. There are solid engineering reasons. The only similarity between the two is, frankly, the Garmin name!
RJBrown Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Quote: allsmiles This was exactly what I was trying to say earlier which you very well identified John. Reliability. What price do we put on this notion of reliability? If the Avidyne 540 comes in at >13K installed from scratch and the GTN750 comes in at ~15K or even at 16K worst case what is the differential? We are talking a couple grand in the worst case scenario. How much is this reliability and piece of mind worth? Personally it's priceless but ymmv! It's a no brainer! Advantage: Garmin And to the people who say Garmin made the connectors different on purpose, etc. etc., between the GNS and the GTN that's not the case. The GTN is light years different than the GNS and incompatible. There are solid engineering reasons. The only similarity between the two is, frankly, the Garmin name!
Becca Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Quote: allsmiles This was exactly what I was trying to say earlier which you very well identified John. Reliability. What price do we put on this notion of reliability? If the Avidyne 540 comes in at >13K installed from scratch and the GTN750 comes in at ~15K or even at 16K worst case what is the differential? We are talking a couple grand in the worst case scenario. How much is this reliability and piece of mind worth? Personally it's priceless but ymmv! It's a no brainer! Advantage: Garmin And to the people who say Garmin made the connectors different on purpose, etc. etc., between the GNS and the GTN that's not the case. The GTN is light years different than the GNS and incompatible. There are solid engineering reasons. The only similarity between the two is, frankly, the Garmin name!
kgbpost Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 5) Database updates? Whom and how much? I don't know the answer to that one.
Parker_Woodruff Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 So I assume the connections and tray are still cOmpatible if you have a non-WAAS GNS430?
jetdriven Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Posted November 25, 2011 Quote: kgbpost 5) Database updates? Whom and how much? I don't know the answer to that one.
kgbpost Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Quote: Parker_Woodruff So I assume the connections and tray are still cOmpatible if you have a non-WAAS GNS430?
FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Why in the world are we talking about Avidyne going out of business? To my knowledge there has been no indication of that so some of us are just speculating w/o any type of hard facts. I would say the risk of losing ones deposit is 0%. Pay by credit card and if things go south it's between the credit card company and Avidyne. As far as your concerned you paid for something you never recieved. The charge goes back to Avidyne. The consumer is going to be protected no issue. Telling by this board there are alot of people who are turned off by Garmin so to say your going to get a better residual value with a Garmin product is again nothing more then speculation.
johnggreen Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 The fact is that the thread of Garmin reliability has been one constant we aircraft pilots could count on. The GTN 750 is only the most recent of "quantum leaps" served up in avionics technology by Garmin that we GA pilots have benefitted from over the last two decades. As for the projected reliability of recently and "to be" introduced products (Garmin and other), we have nothing to guage by except past history, and it would appear that by that measure, one would have to take leave of his senses to abandon Garmin at this time. That being said, I encourage others to purchase "anybody but Garmin". I truly support you in being the lab rats on reliability. You make the avionics market better and you do it without my money and inconvenience. I sincerly appreciate a company and product that gives me confidence; even if that confidence comes at at price. I find it amusing that some want to be "Garmin haters" because it would appear that the company has the ultimate goal of making a profit. The day they abandon that objective, their end will be in sight. OK, I've had my say. Thanks for listening. Right now, I've got to file my flight plan back to the deep south with the confidence that the one thing I can most likely count on is that my 430's will take me the 900 miles safely and without issue. JGREEN
PTK Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Think of it this way. With Avidyne you are buying lots of undesirable baggage, i.e. questionable dependability track record. With Garmin you are buying lots of desirable baggage, I.e. solid product with a name synonymous with quality. Depends which baggage you want I suppose, and if the small delta is worth the gamble! Why did Cirrus drop Avidyne? Anyone know? OEM's should be running TO avionics manufacturers as they are to Garmin. Not running away! Advantage: Garmin
jetdriven Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Posted November 25, 2011 The Avidyne R9 for example, is a clean sheet concept, and is flying now, for about 1/3rd less than a G1000 system. It also has dual AHRS so if one goes out the system doesn't crash. IFD540 is based on the R9.
PTK Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Someone earlier said something about indicators. Which indicators are you referring to?
Becca Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Quote: johnggreen The fact is that the thread of Garmin reliability has been one constant we aircraft pilots could count on. The GTN 750 is only the most recent of "quantum leaps" served up in avionics technology by Garmin that we GA pilots have benefitted from over the last two decades. As for the projected reliability of recently and "to be" introduced products (Garmin and other), we have nothing to guage by except past history, and it would appear that by that measure, one would have to take leave of his senses to abandon Garmin at this time. That being said, I encourage others to purchase "anybody but Garmin". I truly support you in being the lab rats on reliability. You make the avionics market better and you do it without my money and inconvenience. I sincerly appreciate a company and product that gives me confidence; even if that confidence comes at at price. I find it amusing that some want to be "Garmin haters" because it would appear that the company has the ultimate goal of making a profit. The day they abandon that objective, their end will be in sight. OK, I've had my say. Thanks for listening. Right now, I've got to file my flight plan back to the deep south with the confidence that the one thing I can most likely count on is that my 430's will take me the 900 miles safely and without issue. JGREEN
bnicolette Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 For what it's worth in regards to reliability of the Avidyne equipment. I have been flying behind the EX500 MFD for over 4 years now and it has been flown over 1400 hours now with NO issues. I have also flown behind the MX200 for a little over 2 years, also with no problems. However, I genuinely like the EX500 much better than the MX200. IMO I think the screen is "crisper" and I like the way you navigate through it a lot better. The only short fall with the EX500 was that we can't "pan" around and zoom in on some other location than where we are currently located. However, if Avidyne's other equipment is a fair representation of what the new equipment will be like, then I say there are NO issues with reliability! Thank goodness we're starting to see somebody come into the marketplace to compete with Garmin. Perhaps it will make these units affordable to the "poorer" folks like me. :-)
OR75 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 I do not put myself in a pro- or against-Garmin camp at all. I own a GNS 430 and it works just fine. however, (1) I do not consider the GTN series to be a quantum leap. (I thought the jump from Garmin GNC or King KLN series to GNS series was a quantum leap. Thanks Garmin !!). (2) Free market works only when there is competition. Although if you ask me, it is a necessary requirement but it may not be sufficient.
1964-M20E Posted December 14, 2011 Report Posted December 14, 2011 This offer is still available until the end of the month. I’m contemplating going this route the only drawback is I’d have to redo my complete avionics stack since I do not have a 530. I thought I could remove the present GPS and the ADF (KR87) but I still need more space and I’d have to replace my NAV/COM 2 with a slimmer SL30. I’m still looking at about $15k +/- after all is said and done with selling old equipment. The plus side is I’d have all new radios but so far I’m not having any problems with the ones I have. The hard part of the decision is that I have a working Garmin 300XL set up IFR (enroute and approaches LNAV) so the move gives me more razzle dazzle but limited real functionality increase (IFR approaches VNAV and LPV adn a second ILS) unless I add a bunch more to it for weather and traffic. Any thoughts or suggestions? Unfortunately desire and budget never truly match up.
Bennett Posted December 14, 2011 Report Posted December 14, 2011 I have had a GTN 750 for several months now, and the more I use it, the better Iike it. It has been absolutely reliable in everyday use. There is a small glitch in the magnetic variation v true when the GTN 750 is coupled to a slaved compass. Garmin was very fothright in acknowleging the problem when I (and the installer) brought it to their attention. A service bulletin was immediately issued, and a correcting software release is in the works. Garmin could not have been more responsive, and while I was analzing the problem of a "yawing" icon, they sent me a replacement GTN 750, just in case the problem was unique to my box. To their credit they sent me the new unit before I returned the first one. Sure, Garmin is expensive, but I find real value in their equipment and service attitude. I like Avidyne, just as I like Honeywell/Allied/King top of the line avionics. Competition is wonderful at the pilot/consumer level. In my opinion, Foreflight (or Wings X) running on an iPad is a real factor driving further innovation that will find its way into the panel mounted "approved" avionics. Note how the Garmin 796 touch screen (unfortunately not approved for primary navigation) mimics the GTN 750 interface (and the iPad pinch and expand features). I had Dynon avionics installed in another aircraft (LSA) I recently owned. What a forward looking company they are. I had excellent technical service from them, and their equipment is not only first rate, but so much less expensive than the TSOed avionics we use in our Certified aircraft. If it were not for the costs of certification we could all have great glass panels at very affordable costs. And not just from Dynon, but quite a few others that can be seen in experimental and LSA aircraft. For what it is worth, I suggest checking out the AvMap EKP V as a portable unit. Much less expensive than the Garmin 696, with many of the same capabilities. I've had two AvMap EKP IVs, and I think their screen resolution is the best of all of them.
Recommended Posts