Is Mooney M20c a good first plane

[201er]

You’ll probably want to be looking at a Cirrus then. They are mostly bought for showing off. And they come with a parachute so that you feel like you’re a safer pilot.

[Kb Brar]

2 minutes ago, 201er said:

You’ll probably want to be looking at a Cirrus then. They are mostly bought for showing off. And they come with a parachute so that you feel like you’re a safer pilot.

lol , too much money , may be down the road not now. I found your youtube , I subscribed as well 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Kb Brar

[RogueOne]

8 minutes ago, 201er said:

You’ll probably want to be looking at a Cirrus then. They are mostly bought for showing off. And they come with a parachute so that you feel like you’re a safer pilot.

You really need an attitude adjustment.  Just wow.

[Kb Brar]

1 minute ago, RogueOne said:

You really need an attitude adjustment.  Just wow.

I am confused ?

[RogueOne]

Kb:

I am really not sure what is going on with all the Debbie Downers here.  A C is a great reliable airframe and engine.  Maintenance on your plane and ON YOU (to make sure you fly and remain competent) are critical.  These are OLD airframes that if not maintained well are money pits at best and unreliable to a fault at worst.  That said the baggage holds 100 pounds and the back seat easily a hundred more and you and your add on there to make useful load.  Keep learning and dreaming your dream.  I bought my Mooney shortly after getting my complex rating and have hundreds of fun hours under the belt.  Sounds like you have four wheel options as primary and the Mooney would be a fun and practical back-up.  Enjoy your search and education in pursuit of your license to learn.

[RogueOne]

2 minutes ago, Kb Brar said:

I am confused ?

So am I...

[gsxrpilot]

That comment wasn't directed at you...

A Mooney is a great way to get around the country. And an M20C is a nice first airplane. My first airplane was an M20C as well.

Having said that, it's easier to spend money on a bad airplane than to find a good one. I wouldn't be worried about whether you should buy an M20C or not, but rather are you buying the right one. Like they say, don't marry the first girl that smiles at you, don't buy the first Mooney you see either. 

But you've come to the right place and there is a lot of wisdom on this forum. We can help you evaluate the specific plane if you want to post the info here.

I would suggest getting a little closer to getting your license before buying the plane. Later down the road after you've soloed and are doing solo cross country training flights, you'll be in a much better place to evaluate the airplane you want to purchase. But we'll certainly help you make sure you're getting a good one.

[Kb Brar]

1 minute ago, RogueOne said:

Kb:

I am really not sure what is going on with all the Debbie Downers here.  A C is a great reliable airframe and engine.  Maintenance on your plane and ON YOU (to make sure you fly and remain competent) are critical.  These are OLD airframes that if not maintained well are money pits at best and unreliable to a fault at worst.  That said the baggage holds 100 pounds and the back seat easily a hundred more and you and your add on there to make useful load.  Keep learning and dreaming your dream.  I bought my Mooney shortly after getting my complex rating and have hundreds of fun hours under the belt.  Sounds like you have four wheel options as primary and the Mooney would be a fun and practical back-up.  Enjoy your search and education in pursuit of your license to learn.

thanks for that , yes I have reliable ground transportation 2019 Mercedes Cargo van , and plane is just a toy like my RED cameras and my Hasselblad. See I shoot with a camera that takes a $3000 memory card , just want to up my game with a plane 

 

[Kb Brar]

4 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

That comment wasn't directed at you...

A Mooney is a great way to get around the country. And an M20C is a nice first airplane. My first airplane was an M20C as well.

Having said that, it's easier to spend money on a bad airplane than to find a good one. I wouldn't be worried about whether you should buy an M20C or not, but rather are you buying the right one. Like they say, don't marry the first girl that smiles at you, don't buy the first Mooney you see either. 

But you've come to the right place and there is a lot of wisdom on this forum. We can help you evaluate the specific plane if you want to post the info here.

I would suggest getting a little closer to getting your license before buying the plane. Later down the road after you've soloed and are doing solo cross country training flights, you'll be in a much better place to evaluate the airplane you want to purchase. But we'll certainly help you make sure you're getting a good one.

thank you for the incurring reply . 

[bradp]

@RogueOne not trying to dissuade someone’s dreams.  Just trying to pull in a reality check. What we do is deadly serious if risk mitigation and acknowledging limitations are not respected in a commensurate manner.   Paul has a good take on it.  The OP has his dream, but needs to learn *a lot* about flying.  Hopefully that’s what training provides.  Unfortunately that whole when not to fly part isn’t taught well - we learn it on our own - and it seems like maybe the OP doesn’t have the highest quality training so far.  He should take stock - piston single GA is not a reliable form of business transport for time critical applications.  Sure he can pull up in a plane to show off a great camera.   He just can’t expect to do that on a set schedule and needs to avoid from day one hour 15 and landing 50 of his PPL get there itis because I’m getting a sense of it from the description of the proposed mission.    The aircraft is just the tool.  It’s the judgment of the PIC that is most critical.    

[RogueOne]

Sometimes it is fun just to dream.  To think happy thoughts.  Reality and absolutes are always a way to go though...

[RogueOne]

3 minutes ago, bradp said:

@RogueOne not trying to dissuade someone’s dreams.  Just trying to pull in a reality check. What we do is deadly serious if risk mitigation and acknowledging limitations are not respected in a commensurate manner.   Paul has a good take on it.  The OP has his dream, but needs to learn *a lot* about flying.  Hopefully that’s what training provides.  Unfortunately that whole when not to fly part isn’t taught well - we learn it on our own - and it seems like maybe the OP doesn’t have the highest quality training so far.  He should take stock - piston single GA is not a reliable form of business transport for time critical applications.  Sure he can pull up in a plane to show off a great camera.   He just can’t expect to do that on a set schedule and needs to avoid from day one hour 15 and landing 50 of his PPL get there itis because I’m getting a sense of it from the description of the proposed mission.    The aircraft is just the tool.  It’s the judgment of the PIC that is most critical.    

I am no doubt wrong on my opinion.  Alas, I am sticking with my original “call out” and it wasn’t directed at an individual post, but rather as a theme as I read.  Your above explanation (really simple truisms ARE taught).  I am not an instructor, perhaps you are.  Go forth and share.  I will do the same.  I personally do not think somebody coming to a site inquiring about a C Model needs the sobering gloom of what if’s and judging their ability to apply A.I.M.

It’s a wonder that anyone survives today.  Yet they do.  Survive...

[gsxrpilot]

I fired the first four CFI's I flew with. All of them were just full of how dangerous and difficult flying is and how if I didn't take is seriously I'd kill myself. I was 40 years old, not 8 years old. And didn't appreciate being treated like a kid who didn't know better.

Flying is no big deal, anyone can do it. The OP's got 15 hours. He's got a long way to go and I'm sure when he gets there he'll be as competent a pilot as any of us were on the day we passed our check ride. 

Let's not start by throwing cold water on the whole thing.

[Hank]

@Kb Brar, the cautions above apply to flying any airplane at all for work. As you progress in your training, some of this will become obvious--training flights will be cancelled / postponed due to weather or issues with the plane.

An M20-C is such a great first plane that many of us here bought one. I bought my C a whopping 5 weeks after my PPL checkride, with 62 hours in my logbook. I was living in West-by-Gawd, Virginny, flying across the Appalachians to the Carolinas and Georgia to visit friends and family. Somehow I survived that for seven years before moving back South again 5 years ago. Some of that was due to receiving good training, some was due to exercising judgement on when / where to fly and not fly. 

Useful load is specific to each airplane, while the permitted weight and CG limits are by model. All M20-C airplanes have the same limits, but no two have the same empty weight. Gross weight is 2575 lbs. My empty weight is 1606, leaving 969 lb. useful load. The planes hold 52 gal of gas, at 6 lb each or 312 lb, leaving 657 lbs for you, passengers and cargo. The baggage area is limited to 120 lb., but we often pile the backseat quite full; I've also flown with two adult males in the back, but anytime you fly with 4 people you need accurate weights and are likely limited to less than full fuel (in almost all single-engine planes). My last 4-guy trip, I was limited to only 34 gallons of gas, but that is good for 3 hours' flight at 145 knots, plus required IFR reserves, plus a little bit.

Weight and balance can be a fun game, moving people and cargo around, adding and subtracting fuel. Remember to do two balances, one with lots of fuel at takeoff and another one after subtracting fuel used in flight. I've never encountered enough of a change in flight to be a problem, but it's still a good idea to check it.

Don't let plane dreaming / shopping distract you from studying and finishing your PPL. Study hard, ask lots of questions and fly safe!

[carusoam]

Am I too late?

KB shows up with a simple question...

Is the M20C a good first plane..?

A)Yes.

B ) hell yes.

C) Yes, I wouldn’t have it any other way...

 

I used my M20C to visit clients probably once or twice per year... it was used to land a 1000+AMU job... (call it an expensive sale)

Then I used it to visit grandma with their grand children... 20 to 40 times per year...

I trained in it for the IR...

I bought It after the PPL...

Then I bought a more capable plane... and flew the same number of clients around...

Yes it takes some effort and training to make it a useable traveling machine...

It’s not like you are building a business around having a perfect airplane... you have built a business already... you use expensive tools... A Mooney is another expensive tool to be used under the right conditions...

 

Holy Cow... imagine pictures in the today’s flight thread taken by a pro, with a 45amu camera...!!! 

Go Mooney!

Welcome aboard BK.  Some of us get the cart before the horse some days...   you have met the MS sales prevention team, stand by for the more positive replies...

What you have witnessed... MSers have welcomed you into their inner circle... It may be hard to recognize some of the jabs tossed around by people that know each other pretty well.  It happens over the years...

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

4 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Go Mooney!

Welcome aboard BK.  Some of us get the cart before the horse some days...   you have met the MS sales prevention team, stand by for the more positive replies...

Best regards,

-a-

The Dean of MooneySpace right here. We were waiting for you to show up and bring some wisdom to this thread before it went completely off the rails. 

[Kb Brar]

28 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Am I too late?

KB shows up with a simple question...

Is the M20C a good first plane..?

A)Yes.

B ) hell yes.

C) Yes, I wouldn’t have it any other way...

 

I used my M20C to visit clients probably once or twice per year... it was used to land a 1000+AMU job... (call it an expensive sale)

Then I used it to visit grandma with their grand children... 20 to 40 times per year...

I trained in it for the IR...

I bought It after the PPL...

Then I bought a more capable plane... and flew the same number of clients around...

Yes it takes some effort and training to make it a useable traveling machine...

It’s not like you are building a business around having a perfect airplane... you have built a business already... you use expensive tools... A Mooney is another expensive tool to be used under the right conditions...

 

Holy Cow... imagine pictures in the today’s flight thread taken by a pro, with a 45amu camera...!!! 

Go Mooney!

Welcome aboard BK.  Some of us get the cart before the horse some days...   you have met the MS sales prevention team, stand by for the more positive replies...

What you have witnessed... MSers have welcomed you into their inner circle... It may be hard to recognize some of the jabs tossed around by people that know each other pretty well.  It happens over the years...

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks 

[SantosDumont]

If I had understood all the missions I would try to use my Mooney for after I bought it... I would have bought an A36 Bonanza. If you are constantly loading cargo, then the cargo doors will be 100x more useful to you than the tiny baggage door.   I don’t regret the hundreds of hours in my F though, they gave me experience to fully understand my missions. 

[rbridges]

I wouldn't get a Mooney until I knew how to land well.  I felt sorry for the 172 that was my trainer, and I'd squirm knowing someone was doing that to my mooney.  

Don't just consider load weight but space. It may be cramped getting all that stuff in there depending on how bulky it is. I know people can get a lot of stuff in these mooneys but you could end up damaging your stuff or the plane.

[steingar]

The M20c is a great first airplane, so long as you like getting lots of transition training or make it part of your primary training.  Only problem with the latter is it will drive your training time up.

The OP's mission, however, is nearly untenable.  There aren't that many airplanes that can carry 400 pounds of equipment, two people, and enough gas to go anywhere.  The only ones I can think of that might do it are really expensive, either to acquire or operate.  Moreover, loading 400 pounds of anything into and out of an airplane is going to get really, really old very quickly.  Says me get a nice comfortable Van with cruise control and a good stereo.  Your dispatch rate will be 100%.  

[MIm20c]

I think the mistake here is treating your aircraft purchase like a piece of business equipment.  It takes time and acquired still to complete your mission. This will takes many years unless you make it a priority. 

My advice is to buy a nice plane, utilize the business write off, but then slowly work up to your mission. 

[bradp]

Also if you’re willing or able to consider a twin ,, like an old D55 or E55 you’ll be able to haul your stuff.  Other good load haulers are C210, PA-32. 

The big doors on a Cherokee six would actually be perfect for your mission with the cameras.  

Just putting out some alternative ideas. 

 

https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/six-classic-utility-aircraft/

I’d go Douglas if I had the choice 

 

[DXB]

23 hours ago, Kb Brar said:

This is helpful, I took my discovery flight in Cessna 172 and I am Traning with a piper tomahawk , I can manage the weight down to 200 LBs. Any idea on the insurance cost paying about $65000 for the plane ?

200 lbs, 2 people, full fuel is certainly doable in a C model.  Insurance will be about 2K when you start out after your PPL.  It will come down to close to 1K once you have a few hundred hours and an instrument rating.  You will love this plane as a platform for your instrument rating. Ignore the naysayers here. You will certainly need the IR to have much dispatch reliability to use the plane for work, but you will have tons of fun until you get to that point.  You will love this plane.  I will downright puke if I ever hear that you bought a Cherokee 6 instead 

 Many of us remember exactly what it was like to be at your stage not too long ago and love cheering for someone who takes the same wonderful journey.  You will need to learn how to get help from this site effectively (which certainly requires filtering some utter BS sometimes), but do not ever let anyone here make you feel stupid!!!

 

[irishpilot]

This is helpful, I took my discovery flight in Cessna 172 and I am Traning with a piper tomahawk , I can manage the weight down to 200 LBs. Any idea on the insurance cost paying about $65000 for the plane ?

With your hours, no complex time, it's going to be expensive. However Hull value is low, so you have that going for you. Recommend you call for a quote.

Mooney's are capable XC planes. If you plan to use it as a tool for work, an IFR cert is required. Remember, the #1 fatal accident cause in GA is aircraft loss of control inflight. IFR training lowers that risk.

Fly Safe,
Safety Forum Mod

[Htwjr]

No a C model is not a good first plane.  It is an excellent first plane.  I got mine a few weeks after I got my ppl and have really enjoyed it.  It is the best value in all of general aviation.  They are relatively inexpensive to buy and maintain, have a great useful load, good speed on minimal fuel burn and simple.  I really like my Johnson bar landing gear.  I would recommend getting your ppl before getting a plane then you can get your complex endorsement in the Mooney.