Fuel Flow on Take-off

[Bravoman]

Sorry for the late response. I remembered  to look at it today. About 29.6 GPh

[LANCECASPER]

FOLLOW UP: So this issue continued until this afternoon. I had been getting high TIT indications  (flashing 1650 +) on climb-out and had been pulling power back to 35/25 after reaching 500 feet and climbing at lower power settings. Dugosh put in two intake gaskets in November, still the same, no difference. They changed out the TIT probe this morning, still the same. 

I took my airplane this afternoon to the shop on my airpark (Fletcher who specializes in Grummans) to have the prop balanced, which I've been meaning to do for 18 months since I swapped the prop out. During the  prop balance the assistant yelled to the IA who was running it up to shut the engine down. There was a fuel leak on the #3 injector which could have been disastrous. The nut was on upside down making the fuel line very loose and it had been that way since the June annual. Many eyes have looked at it since but none had noticed that.

 

I took it up for a test flight and not only are the temps back to being correct, but the prop balance made a nice difference. They were able to reduce it from .26 down to .05

 

 

[jetdriven]

Was there any fuel staining  nearby? Go to wonder about that

[carusoam]

Great follow-up Lance!

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

Was there any fuel staining  nearby? Go to wonder about that

We didn’t pull the bottom cowling off to see if there was staining down there and it’s hard to see on the Lycoming gray cylinders. But I was standing there and saw fuel spraying so the prop balance proved to be a good thing today,


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[alextstone]

On 1/7/2020 at 5:38 PM, LANCECASPER said:

FOLLOW UP: So this issue continued until this afternoon. I had been getting high TIT indications  (flashing 1650 +) on climb-out and had been pulling power back to 35/25 after reaching 500 feet and climbing at lower power settings. Dugosh put in two intake gaskets in November, still the same, no difference. They changed out the TIT probe this morning, still the same. 

I took my airplane this afternoon to the shop on my airpark (Fletcher who specializes in Grummans) to have the prop balanced, which I've been meaning to do for 18 months since I swapped the prop out. During the  prop balance the assistant yelled to the IA who was running it up to shut the engine down. There was a fuel leak on the #3 injector which could have been disastrous. The nut was on upside down making the fuel line very loose and it had been that way since the June annual. Many eyes have looked at it since but none had noticed that.

 

I took it up for a test flight and not only are the temps back to being correct, but the prop balance made a nice difference. They were able to reduce it from .26 down to .05

 

 

Wow!  So many lessons here!  What I know to be true is that the data does not lie.  Kudos to you for knowing that your FF was not right and continuing to work the problem with different mechanics.  By chance, do you have a photo of the injector nut installed incorrectly?

 

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, alextstone said:

Wow!  So many lessons here!  What I know to be true is that the data does not lie.  Kudos to you for knowing that your FF was not right and continuing to work the problem with different mechanics.  By chance, do you have a photo of the injector nut installed incorrectly?

 

[Bravoman]

On 1/7/2020 at 6:38 PM, LANCECASPER said:

FOLLOW UP: So this issue continued until this afternoon. I had been getting high TIT indications  (flashing 1650 +) on climb-out and had been pulling power back to 35/25 after reaching 500 feet and climbing at lower power settings. Dugosh put in two intake gaskets in November, still the same, no difference. They changed out the TIT probe this morning, still the same. 

I took my airplane this afternoon to the shop on my airpark (Fletcher who specializes in Grummans) to have the prop balanced, which I've been meaning to do for 18 months since I swapped the prop out. During the  prop balance the assistant yelled to the IA who was running it up to shut the engine down. There was a fuel leak on the #3 injector which could have been disastrous. The nut was on upside down making the fuel line very loose and it had been that way since the June annual. Many eyes have looked at it since but none had noticed that.

 

I took it up for a test flight and not only are the temps back to being correct, but the prop balance made a nice difference. They were able to reduce it from .26 down to .05

 

 

Glad that it was caught and most importantly that you are safe. I Don’t pretend to be a mechanic so I will go ahead and ask: is there any way that installing the nut upside down can be characterized as an “honest” mistake? Was that done by an MSC?

[LANCECASPER]

1 minute ago, Bravoman said:

Glad that it was caught and most importantly that you are safe. I Don’t pretend to be a mechanic so I will go ahead and ask: is there any way that installing the nut upside down can be characterized as an “honest” mistake? Was that done by an MSC?

It was done by a former service director for Mooney and it was an honest mistake. Since I'm not perfect myself I can't hold him to perfection. A Mooney Service Center later looked at it twice and missed it. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. This is something I will now check myself on all six injectors after every annual before my test flight.

[irishpilot]

Thank you for the detailed follow-up. This is a perfect example of knowing your aircraft and continuing to look into a symptom that isn't right.

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[hwarnat]

I see around 30gph. Can fly WOT FULL RICH 2575 @120KIAS with good CHT  (hottest max430 rest 400)and and TIT way below 1650 which is my limit. Any reducing ()eg 34/2400) does not help much, climb rate drops significantly while cooling does not really change - slower climb means way longer climb before i can switch to 30/2400 LOP cruise.

[Davidv]

2 hours ago, hwarnat said:

I see around 30gph. Can fly WOT FULL RICH 2575 @120KIAS with good CHT  (hottest max430 rest 400)and and TIT way below 1650 which is my limit. Any reducing ()eg 34/2400) does not help much, climb rate drops significantly while cooling does not really change - slower climb means way longer climb before i can switch to 30/2400 LOP cruise.

So you’re climbing at around 36/2575? 

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, hwarnat said:

I see around 30gph. Can fly WOT FULL RICH 2575 @120KIAS with good CHT  (hottest max430 rest 400)and and TIT way below 1650 which is my limit. Any reducing ()eg 34/2400) does not help much, climb rate drops significantly while cooling does not really change - slower climb means way longer climb before i can switch to 30/2400 LOP cruise.

Climbing at 120 KIAS at full power with that fuel flow, if your cooling baffles are good, with cowl flaps open, your CHT's should be 360-380. TIT doesn't even come into play since you're at full fuel flow, full rich.

[Davidv]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

Climbing at 120 KIAS at full power with that fuel flow, if your cooling baffles are good, with cowl flaps open, your CHT's should be 360-380.

That's about what I get at 34/24, do you climb at 35-36/2575?  In fact, I see around 370-380s at 24-25 gph at 34/24.

[LANCECASPER]

8 minutes ago, Davidv said:

That's about what I get at 34/24, do you climb at 35-36/2575?  In fact, I see around 370-380s at 24-25 gph at 34/24.

The extra fuel flow should balance out higher temp of full power and you get up there more quickly, meaning you can pull back to cruise sooner. 

The POH shows three different climb profiles, most times I use Best Rate, but i increase my KIAS if temps get over 380 CHT.

 

[Davidv]

Interesting, I'm sure you've mentioned this before but I forgot.  My procedure is full everything until 500 feet when I pull back to 34.  I'm pretty controlled airspace so I usually can't climb without a step but I'll try full when I don't have to worry about that.

[LANCECASPER]

Interesting, I'm sure you've mentioned this before but I forgot.  My procedure is full everything until 500 feet when I pull back to 34.  I'm pretty controlled airspace so I usually can't climb without a step but I'll try full when I don't have to worry about that.

When I was having temp problems because of what turned out to be a fuel leak earlier in this post i did pull back power at 500 ft, but thats the only time I’ve ever done that.

In a turbo if everything is set up right, its nice to climb as high as practical for that flight as quickly as temps allow and stay there as long as you can.


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[irishpilot]

I am WOT until single engine 180 alt. I use 800' as my guide. Then 34/2400 up to the FLs if going with the wind.

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[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

What kind of climb rates are you all getting at these various settings, weights and altitudes ?

[affricate]

26

[kortopates]

12 hours ago, affricate said:

26

You should have yours adjusted, that's well below the Lycomimg spec for 100% power (@ 35" & 2575 rpm)

[xcrmckenna]

As I’m upgrading to a Bravo from my J I KNEW I didn’t want to read this thread!!!!


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[Davidv]

5 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

As I’m upgrading to a Bravo from my J I KNEW I didn’t want to read this thread!!!!


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Yes, as a new Bravo owner the link below will be helpful for future flight planning! 

https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/energy/refined-products/rbob-gasoline.html

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, xcrmckenna said:

As I’m upgrading to a Bravo from my J I KNEW I didn’t want to read this thread!!!!


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Congrats!

[xcrmckenna]

Congrats!

Hopefully the insurance mess with my J will be settled this week or next. Then if it still works out I’ll be headed to San Antonio to check out a Bravo.


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