ArtVandelay Posted December 2, 2018 Report Posted December 2, 2018 installed it and it works great. I showed 0-2 on the ground in the air I showed 0 and when I turned the cabin heat on it went to 4. Should it be 0 even with the heat on or is it expected to get a slight PPM. My OCD requires me to tell you to clean the gtn and the gnc screens. Quote
Jim Peace Posted December 2, 2018 Report Posted December 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, teejayevans said: My OCD requires me to tell you to clean the gtn and the gnc screens. I did that before I left the plane for the night.....I used to do it after every flight but I have backed off of that....cant see any prints when its on Quote
Jim Peace Posted December 2, 2018 Report Posted December 2, 2018 1 hour ago, mike_elliott said: Do you keep the "quantum Eye" stuck on the panel to cover up a scratch or something? Just like having an extra indicator. My plan is to get another CO detector from a different manufacturer and have them side by side..... 3 Quote
aviatoreb Posted December 2, 2018 Report Posted December 2, 2018 Just now, Jim Peace said: Just like having an extra indicator. My plan is to get another CO detector from a different manufacturer and have them side by side..... Ah well that makes sense. What I meant above I was referring when we (including me) we used to fly around with a CO sticker to warn us if there is a problem and even then I was figuring how useless is that with just that to warn us. 1 Quote
Jim Peace Posted December 2, 2018 Report Posted December 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: Ah well that makes sense. What I meant above I was referring when we (including me) we used to fly around with a CO sticker to warn us if there is a problem and even then I was figuring how useless is that with just that to warn us. What about keeping one of these onboard, there are other types: https://www.gotimegear.com/products/fire-mask?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=41644117130&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5uvWvqaC3wIVB1YMCh0-RQh_EAQYAyABEgL90vD_BwE http://www.hylinesafety.com/evacu8smokehood.html https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2012-10-30/protective-breathing-equipment-helps-pilots-breathe 1 Quote
Jim Peace Posted December 2, 2018 Report Posted December 2, 2018 1 hour ago, kpaul said: Mine shows 0 in the air with heat off or on. Thats great. I would like to know from others who have an indicator what there readings are when the heat is on Quote
N6018Q Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jim Peace said: Thats great. I would like to know from others who have an indicator what there readings are when the heat is on I have a SensorCon and I've never seen the ppm go above 10, regardless of phase of flight and position of heater knob. Quote
Jim Peace Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, N6018Q said: I have a SensorCon and I've never seen the ppm go above 10, regardless of phase of flight and position of heater knob. would you say putting the heat on makes it rise to that number below 10 or is it constant with heat on or off....... Quote
Cyril Gibb Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 In the air, 0 ppm on my Sensorcon both heat on and off. More on the ground depending on wind direction or if taxiing near other aircraft. Quote
aviatoreb Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Jim Peace said: What about keeping one of these onboard, there are other types: https://www.gotimegear.com/products/fire-mask?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=41644117130&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5uvWvqaC3wIVB1YMCh0-RQh_EAQYAyABEgL90vD_BwE http://www.hylinesafety.com/evacu8smokehood.html https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2012-10-30/protective-breathing-equipment-helps-pilots-breathe In fact, I already DO HAVE one of those units, the e vac u-8, which I carry on board at all times, on the floor behind the pilot seat - I have long arms and I can reach there. But that is not for CO in the cockpit. That is for the disaster scenario of fire-smoke in the cockpit. Quote
Jim Peace Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: In fact, I already DO HAVE one of those units, the e vac u-8, which I carry on board at all times, on the floor behind the pilot seat - I have long arms and I can reach there. But that is not for CO in the cockpit. That is for the disaster scenario of fire-smoke in the cockpit. The one you carry has no o2. just a filter....I will look for an inexpensive one with o2. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 Allow me to make a strong statement...? 1) you have a base line CO reading with the heat turned off... 2) You then open the heat valve and the CO gauge indicates a rise in CO... 3) You can prove the opposite... start with the heat on and watch the CO go down when you turn the heat off... 4) Either way you look at it... CO shouldn’t be coming in with the heat on... 5) You have done a pretty good job of proving the heat is the cause... take it one step further.... 6) Put the CO monitor in front of the heat outlet to see if it is any stronger... it probably dilutes some with other air entering the cabin... 7) are you seeing any moisture in the cabin condensing on the inside of the windows...? 8) Time to inspect the heater muff... because you can 9) There is no technical reason, that I am aware of, that would allow CO out of the exhaust pipe and show up on the meter without entering through the heat muff... 10) cracks in exhaust pipes start slowly and have been known to crack open in one flight... That is a pretty strong statement... from a private pilot. On the other hand, it could be a good reason to contact PF and see if you can convince them to adjust the shape of their long tailpipe... How does that sound? Best regards, -a- On a side note... use caution with the Evacu8 hood... it primarily is defense against a fire that may only last a few minutes, mostly filtering out smoke particles that makes it difficult to breathe and see through. Expecting it to last for much longer, filtering out CO from a cracked exhaust pipe may be asking too much from the get down now device... If that is the intention of having the device. Make sure you are getting what you think you are getting... CO is quite dangerous in this respect... Quote
exM20K Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) On 11/22/2018 at 5:05 PM, M20Doc said: If you’ve ever wondered why you long body Mooney heater sucks, this might explain it. This cold air valve shares a common plenum with the heat system. Even when selected closed the valve let’s four jets of cold air from the right air vent into the heat plenum. Clarence Not if you cover them (per your suggestion and with Mooney’s approval!). Toasty as can be now. Edited December 3, 2018 by exM20K Quote
aviatoreb Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jim Peace said: The one you carry has no o2. just a filter....I will look for an inexpensive one with o2. Its true. Its quite a bad day if high altitude and on fire and filled with smoke. Knock on wood against that everyone. At least I have something at least to use if at breathable altitude. I have thought of what you said - I figure anything below 15k (emergency) and descending (remember smoke) could be done this way. And maybe a cannula may fits inside. And remembering you aren't meant to be hanging out and cruising along with this hood on. I've had it for several years. And another before that but replaced it when it timed-out. It has a sticker-life. Edited December 3, 2018 by aviatoreb 1 Quote
DanM20C Posted December 3, 2018 Author Report Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Jim Peace said: installed it and it works great. I showed 0-2 on the ground in the air I showed 0 and when I turned the cabin heat on it went to 4. Should it be 0 even with the heat on or is it expected to get a slight PPM. Jim, Anthony said it better above than I could have, thanks A! If you get a slight rise that is repeatable you can be confident that the CO is getting in through the heating system. 4ppm is very low, not a health risk. But there is some part of the heating system that isn't 100%. The muffler under the heat shroud is the critical place to look, a small hole or crack will only get worst over time. I would keep a close eye on it with the sensorcon and at the next convenient time pull the cowl and have a look at the scat tubing running to/from the heat shroud. A hole in the tubing could allow small amounts of CO in from under the cowl. If they appear to be in good repair I would pull the heat shroud and inspect the muffler, preferably with a shop vac and soapy water. A Bonanza owner reported a 6-9ppm rise with the heat on. The mechanic pulled the muffler and found it had experienced and internal fire and was severely deformed. The next annual would(should) have caught it, but he was happy to catch it early. Keep us posted if you find anything. Cheers, Dan Edited December 3, 2018 by DanM20C 1 Quote
N6018Q Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 6 hours ago, Jim Peace said: would you say putting the heat on makes it rise to that number below 10 or is it constant with heat on or off....... Its never constant, seems to vary between 0 and 6, mostly 4 or below. It doesn’t make any difference whether the heat is on or not. Of course I watch it much closer when the heat is on! Quote
Danb Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 How does one cover up the heat plenum? Quote
exM20K Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 6 hours ago, Danb said: How does one cover up the heat plenum? I'll have to look. the work order says: Quote
exM20K Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Danb said: Thanks. DB Note - the lack of heat is more acute in the TN than the R because the TN gets its hot air from the upper deck, like the COL4 does. Pull the power back at altitude in the descent, and you need every available BTU. Quote
Danb Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 My Bravo also lacks heat especially when in the cold under an overcast.,last year I didn’t want to ice over flying from De to Fla so I stayed low(8000) ft until I could climb it was the coldest 1:30 minutes ever in a plane. Ill try to see if I can block it off or bring it to Weber’s Quote
aviatoreb Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, Danb said: My Bravo also lacks heat especially when in the cold under an overcast.,last year I didn’t want to ice over flying from De to Fla so I stayed low(8000) ft until I could climb it was the coldest 1:30 minutes ever in a plane. Ill try to see if I can block it off or bring it to Weber’s Our little airplanes don't have generally much heat even when it works, given what they are up against. I mean my rocket has what seems like terrific heat. When its -10C no problem. Its pumping out some pretty good heat. But if its colder... I remember about 2 years ago one memorably chilly flight from Wilmar, MN home...it was -30OAT and I was there for like 4 hrs. First hour. Chilly. Second hour cold. Third hour very cold. Fourth hour...memorable...memorably COLD. Over thanksgiving I had a brief -30OAT flight to Hartford to remind me about this.... 1 Quote
exM20K Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: Our little airplanes don't have generally much heat even when it works, given what they are up against. I mean my rocket has what seems like terrific heat. When its -10C no problem. Its pumping out some pretty good heat. But if its colder... I remember about 2 years ago one memorably chilly flight from Wilmar, MN home...it was -30OAT and I was there for like 4 hrs. First hour. Chilly. Second hour cold. Third hour very cold. Fourth hour...memorable...memorably COLD. Over thanksgiving I had a brief -30OAT flight to Hartford to remind me about this.... My 231 would melt stuff with the heater output.... Quote
Rick Junkin Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 @DanM20C Hey Dan, I think you're keeping a rough count of your impact on CO detector acquisitions? I gifted one to each of the two instructors I worked with last week during an accelerated commercial course in Waterloo Iowa, and they have promised to encourage all of their students to use the discount code and get one. Your influence continues to spread, my friend. Cheers, Rick 2 Quote
aviatoreb Posted December 3, 2018 Report Posted December 3, 2018 37 minutes ago, exM20K said: My 231 would melt stuff with the heater output.... My Rocket seems like it has superb heat when its -10C OAT. But I tell you when it gets down to -30C or below....not enough. Same in my car...car heat seems pretty good...but when it gets to -30C...not good enough. Quote
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