Is the EDM-730 the -830?

[chrixxer]

I have an EDM-700 with 4-probe CHT/EGT, OilP, OilT, and voltage. I originally asked my avionics shop about the indicator upgrade to the EDM-730 once I learned they were pin-compatible slide-in replacements (as are the -800/830), but then I learned about SavvyAnalysis etc and told the shop I wanted the -830 instead. While my Mooney was pulled apart for her 4-month (!) annual / emergency landing repair / deferred maintenance rectification, I had the mechanic add MAP, RPM, and OAT sensors, and piggy back fuel flow off the FS-450 that's now not long for this panel.

 

The avionics shop (it goes in tomorrow) is telling me the 730 will be an 830, that the only difference is the sensors. But reading the pilot's guide, it looks like I won't have % HP calculated on the 730 (pp. 5, 10), nor the graphical representation of RPM/MAP (p. 12-13 and photo, below). Both things I want.

 

Anyone know how this all works? Thanks!

 

 

Pilot's guide: https://www.jpinstruments.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/PG-EDM-730_830-Rev-A-02-JULY-2009.pdf

 

 

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[wcb]

Just go with the 900 and get rid of multiple other gauges cluttering up your panel.  I got rid of Tach, MP, Fuel levels, Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Amps, EI 4 cyl egt cht, and fuel flow.  It is worth the extra $1000.  From what I understand is you are not really getting two different (redundant readings) by keeping your old gauge (you would be getting two readings of the same thing on two different gauges.  Just a PP opinion only I am certainly NOT the expert.  Tell the shop to hold for a day or so and make a good decision (JPI should not have a problem with returning the 830 for a 900).

[chrixxer]

Just go with the 900 and get rid of multiple other gauges cluttering up your panel.  I got rid of Tach, MP, Fuel levels, Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Amps, EI 4 cyl egt cht, and fuel flow.  It is worth the extra $1000.  From what I understand is you are not really getting two different (redundant readings) by keeping your old gauge (you would be getting two readings of the same thing on two different gauges.  Just a PP opinion only I am certainly NOT the expert.  Tell the shop to hold for a day or so and make a good decision (JPI should not have a problem with returning the 830 for a 900).

Not helpful and not what I asked. The 900 is an almost $10,000 investment (requires all new probes and a full install); the 730/830 is a $1,200 slide-in replacement that uses all the existing hardware.



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[wcb]

Mine was less than half the $10k you were quoted.  Well to be precise they were $4331.78 for all the parts (less than half).  Add labor which mine was $1500 (ok now more than have at $5831.78) I do find it odd that the 730 does not have % HP and 830 does (I guess that is part of the $1000 price difference).  I do like that option and sorry I do not know as I said I am no expert.  I do think you will like either one you go with!!!!!

Sorry not to be helpful!  

[Oldguy]

You are correct. The 730 will not show MAP or calculate HP%. The above is from the install manual and about the only place I found where the differences are shown side-by-side. If you want the functionality of the 830, you need to let your avionics shop/JPI know you want the 830. Especially if you installed the MAP sensor since the document shows the 730 not supporting MAP.

All of the above is based on the documentation found on the JPI site. As with all web-based docs, it may or may not be correct, but a call to JPI or an email to their tech support should get you the answer you need.

FYI - if you send an email to their tech support, you will likely get Tim Sullivan responding. A wealth of information and fairly quick with his responses.

[chrixxer]

1 hour ago, wcb said:

Mine was less than half the $10k you were quoted.  Well to be precise they were $4331.78 for all the parts (less than half).  Add labor which mine was $1500 (ok now more than have at $5831.78)

When I looked at the EDM-900 for 4BE in 2017, I was quoted $3,790 for the base unit plus $279 for fuel pressure. Installation was quoted at $4,000. About $8,000 ("almost $10,000 investment" is what I said). Versus about $1200 for the upgrade (less the core charge), plus about 2 hours of labor, to go from the -700 to the -830. It's just gotta limp along for another year or so, when the SkyView HDX will take over all of that (and thensome), and the JPI unit will move to the right panel as a secondary (backup) set of instruments.

[chrixxer]

1 hour ago, Oldguy said:

You are correct. The 730 will not show MAP or calculate HP%. The above is from the install manual and about the only place I found where the differences are shown side-by-side. If you want the functionality of the 830, you need to let your avionics shop/JPI know you want the 830. Especially if you installed the MAP sensor since the document shows the 730 not supporting MAP.

All of the above is based on the documentation found on the JPI site. As with all web-based docs, it may or may not be correct, but a call to JPI or an email to their tech support should get you the answer you need.

FYI - if you send an email to their tech support, you will likely get Tim Sullivan responding. A wealth of information and fairly quick with his responses.

Thanks, that's what I was afraid of. Despite making it clear (weeks ago) I was adding MAP and wanted the -830 functionality specifically, I fear the shop isn't going to be ready for me. Sigh. Why is everything such a challenge?

I've emailed support@jpi and CC'd the avionics guys, we'll see how this shakes out. I have to drop the plane off, fly back commercially, then fly back commercially to pick the plane up, so it's non-trivial to move this stuff around...

[chrixxer]

Update: This just in from Tim Sullivan at JPI:

Software allows you to set it up either or. In Factory limits set it up as an 830 and answer yes to RPM and Map installed.

 

[Oldguy]

6 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

Update: This just in from Tim Sullivan at JPI:

Software allows you to set it up either or. In Factory limits set it up as an 830 and answer yes to RPM and Map installed.

 

And this is why I like dealing with Tim!

[carusoam]

Expect the 7 series to be the older version of the 8 series...

My 7 series was installed in the mid 90s...

Best regards,

-a-

[chrixxer]

23 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Expect the 7 series to be the older version of the 8 series...

My 7 series was installed in the mid 90s...

Best regards,

-a-

Um, they're identical, per JPI's tech support (you can set the 730 to be an 830, and vice versa, depending on what sensors are connected)... I think you're thinking of the 700/800. Not the 730/830 (pictured herein above). I had a -700, which is definitely 80s/90s era.

The 800 series adds manifold pressure, a graphical display of RPM/MAP, and will calculate % HP with RPM/MAP/Fuel Flow/OAT connected (which mine will have).

Edited November 7, 2018 by chrixxer

[MIm20c]

Another option is to buy the base 730 system (vs the upgrade) and for another $150-200 you get 4 new cht and egt sensors. 

[chrixxer]

11 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Another option is to buy the base 730 system (vs the upgrade) and for another $150-200 you get 4 new cht and egt sensors. 

The upgrade was $1,100, and one hour of labor for the swap ($100).

A base EDM-730 system is $1,429 plus significantly more installation labor (and I already had a bunch of sensors beyond the CHT/EGT).

And my probes are working fine (knock wood). Besides, again, it only has to last another year or so...

[MIm20c]

12 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

The upgrade was $1,100, and one hour of labor for the swap ($100).

A base EDM-730 system is $1,429 plus significantly more installation labor (and I already had a bunch of sensors beyond the CHT/EGT).

And my probes are working fine (knock wood). Besides, again, it only has to last another year or so...

I was just trying to help. The $1429 system is identical (hardware) to the upgrade except you get the 8 probes/sensors that are normally $80-100 each. Also you get to keep your 700 display that is worth ~$350 on eBay. So by just installing the display out of the kit and selling the 700 display you get all the sensors, wiring harness, and connectors for free to use at a future date. I find the egt sensors degrade over time ~1k hrs. 

[JRam]

6 hours ago, wcb said:

Mine was less than half the $10k you were quoted.  Well to be precise they were $4331.78 for all the parts (less than half).  Add labor which mine was $1500 (ok now more than have at $5831.78)

@wcb would you be comfortable sharing the shop you used for this install? I'd really like to upgrade my 700 and get rid of the rest of the old gauges.

Edited November 8, 2018 by JRam

[Bob_Belville]

5 minutes ago, JRam said:

@wcb would you be comfortable sharing the shop you used for this install? I'd really like to upgrade my 700 and get rid of the rest of the old gauges.

You might want to get a quote from @AGL Aviation. Lynn Mace has done a lot of JPI installs. Shop rates are significantly lower than most avionics shops. 

You probably know you need a EDM 900 or 930 to get rid of old engine gauges.  

[JRam]

8 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

You might want to get a quote from @AGL Aviation. Lynn Mace has done a lot of JPI installs. Shop rates are significantly lower than most avionics shops. 

You probably know you need a EDM 900 or 930 to get rid of old engine gauges.  

Absolutely, it's the 900 I'm looking for. I'll look them up for sure. 

[KLRDMD]

6 hours ago, chrixxer said:

I've emailed support@jpi and CC'd the avionics guys, we'll see how this shakes out. I have to drop the plane off, fly back commercially, then fly back commercially to pick the plane up, so it's non-trivial to move this stuff around...

I can stop by the shop and communicate with Troy regularly if you need me to.

[wcb]

11 hours ago, JRam said:

@wcb would you be comfortable sharing the shop you used for this install? I'd really like to upgrade my 700 and get rid of the rest of the old gauges.

@JRam  I have been happy with my on field mech but he is not a "Mooney specialist and he is a one man band".  I am lucky to be near two of the top Mooney shops in the nation.  I had JD Castell with SWTA in Smithville, TX do the JPI while doing annual, new mags and some other small work (I was HIGHLY PLEASED and can only say positive things about working with JD).  If you do not know him they bought a Mooney SWTA (a long time Mooney Service Center) and have really prided themselves on service (I know Paul and I sound like paid spokespersons but we are not).  I also live close enough to fly into Don Maxwell and can say the same thing for the experience I had with Don who patched tanks and did some other work.

 @chrixxer I know the skyview will be cool but just know we might be waiting a long time.  I have been waiting for the autopilots to materialize and  now Garmin is working on theirs but excluded our F models (pushed them off even further when it is the basic same body as the F - I don't understand).  I decided if it was worth doing it was worth doing right.  The problem with aircraft ownership is we will always be breaking our budget and what is a few thousand among friends (just kidding it all gets crazy stay within your long term plans is always a good answer).