Hurricane Micheal damages to tied down Mooney

[0TreeLemur]

I saw this poor M20C at an airport in the Florida Panhandle yesterday.  It looks as if it had been tied down with ropes in a cross-ways fashion to the main gear.  Sideways wind loading created tension on the line tied to the downwind main gear, causing it to collapse.   Then it appears as if the poor a/c became a bucking bronco in the wind- you can see damage to two of the prop blades and the top of the tail.   It does seem that it would have fared better had it been tied down in the normal way to the tie down rings.   The damage in this part of the Florida Panhandle near where landfall occurred was tremendous.  I post this as an example of one way to not tie down a Mooney if you must tie one down outdoors during a high wind event.  The landing gear can collapse if subjected to significant lateral loads leading to a loosely tethered M20 kite.  The image has been edited to make the a/c unidentifiable.

[rbridges]

Would the tie down points be stronger than the landing gear?

[MB65E]

Not buying it. Looks like a prior gear up put out to pasture. 

I bet the tie downs were removed and the gear was the last resort. And where is the spinner?

poor thing! 

Really sorry for everyone’s losses down there. 

-Matt

[Guest]

It looks like an O&N fuel vent under the right wing, but no tie down ring.

Sadly its likely another donor.

Clarence

Edited November 6, 2018 by M20Doc

[jaylw314]

If you tie it down cross-wise, any side load would pull the main gear inwards, which is the direction they close in.  If you tied the main gear to the same side, the load would be outwards.  It might damage the gear in a different way, but it might not have cause the gear to collapse.

Then again, if you can tie down the gear, you can tie down through the tiedown points.  You might as well tie your plane down at the strongest point (the wing spar).

Can't really tell if the tail is tied down.  Even if it was, there could have been enough wind to lift the nose and bang the tail on the ground.  I suppose in a hurricane, you could set the elevators depending on the wind direction, but that's not always predictable.

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, M20Doc said:

It looks like an O&N fuel vent under the right wing, but no tie down ring.

Sadly its likely another donor.

Clarence

Ah, I thought that was a tiedown ring.  Good eye!

[ArtVandelay]

Not buying it. Looks like a prior gear up put out to pasture. 
I bet the tie downs were removed and the gear was the last resort. And where is the spinner?
poor thing! 
Really sorry for everyone’s losses down there. 
-Matt

Agreed, you can see the tell tail sign on the nose gear door.
They need to call Alan.

[kris_adams]

is the exhaust missing?

[0TreeLemur]

29 minutes ago, MB65E said:

Not buying it. Looks like a prior gear up put out to pasture. 

I bet the tie downs were removed and the gear was the last resort. And where is the spinner?

poor thing! 

Really sorry for everyone’s losses down there. 

-Matt

Only has damage to two of the three prop blades.  Strange gear up landing....

[Guest]

The wing tie down ring is threaded into an aluminum angle about 1/4” thick which is fastened to the spar with 3 buck bolts.  The gear would be way stronger in my opinion.

I agree with the post suggesting a previous gear up.

Clarence

[Guest]

Just now, Fred_2O said:

Only has damage to two of the three prop blades.  Strange gear up landing....

Wouldn’t be the first pilot who shut the engine off at the last second in the gear up.

Clarence

[rbridges]

7 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

If you tie it down cross-wise, any side load would pull the main gear inwards, which is the direction they close in.  If you tied the main gear to the same side, the load would be outwards.  It might damage the gear in a different way, but it might not have cause the gear to collapse.

 

Duh.  I didn't even think about that.  

[0TreeLemur]

19 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Wouldn’t be the first pilot who shut the engine off at the last second in the gear up.

Clarence

The engine doesn't stop turning when the engine is switched off.  There should be some curling to all three blades.  There is no damage to the blade that is pointing upward.   This a/c might have had a gear up landing at some point.  The scratches on the nose gear doors indicate that.  But, it didn't do it with this propeller on it.  

My original point was was that this aircraft was incorrectly tied down.   Tie down rings are easy to obtain and install.    My original post was valid- use the tie down rings.

Ya'll have a great day.

[steingar]

Personally, I think the guy should've gotten his airplane out of the way of the hurricane.  Sorry, they're big slow moving things.  Should be able get a beloved airplane away from that.

[ArtVandelay]

If the engine was at idle as it should be if landing , it could have easily been stopped if it hit hard.

[David Lloyd]

39 minutes ago, Kris_Adams said:

is the exhaust missing?

Can't tell, picture is reversed. Check location of the pitot and prop rotation.

[kris_adams]

12 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

Can't tell, picture is reversed. Check location of the pitot and prop rotation.

Good catch!!

[salty]

32 minutes ago, steingar said:

Personally, I think the guy should've gotten his airplane out of the way of the hurricane.  Sorry, they're big slow moving things.  Should be able get a beloved airplane away from that.

My policy, like most others, pays a relocation fee if you move the plane out of a warning area to a non warning area. They cut me a check for $500 when I took the family north when Irma hit. Paid most of the trip expenses for us to evacuate for 3 days. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by salty

[MIm20c]

Probably had a gear up sometime in the recent past and could not relocate it for the storm.  Prop looks like it was at idle or windmilling. First blade slightly curled back, second one stoped rotation. 

[0TreeLemur]

1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

Probably had a gear up sometime in the recent past and could not relocate it for the storm.  Prop looks like it was at idle or windmilling. First blade slightly curled back, second one stoped rotation. 

Interesting theory, but that's not how prop strikes in aircraft with non-feathering props work.   The only way to damage only two of three props in a non-feathered situation is if the engine is seized or the a/c hits the ground suddenly as in a crash.   I've seen many prop strikes.   The rotational inertia of the prop/engine is not small.   The only way to dissipate that energy is through time and deformation of metal.  Two blades ain't gonna do even if they are completely destroyed.   What you see there in that photo is minor tip damage from the wind tipping the plane up on the tips of those two prop  blades.  This is similar the damage done recently to the propeller Don Kaye's beautiful aircraft when the gear were inadvertently raised in a shop.   Read here:

If there was a prop strike with a seized prop in that position, then only one blade would have been damaged and the bend would be about a foot from the tip.   The bend location on both of those blades is more typical of a tip-over event than a prop strike with the engine running.   The energy dissipation required to stop even an idling prop/engine is large.  Minor damage to two prop tips just doesn't get it done. 

[MB65E]

On a prop strike I always ask how many blades were hit. Only one blade?...ouch it’s done. 

If it gets all three blades it’s less likely there will be significant damage. 

Either way, taredown required. 

-Matt

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

Probably had a gear up sometime in the recent past and could not relocate it for the storm.  Prop looks like it was at idle or windmilling. First blade slightly curled back, second one stoped rotation. 

That's an interesting idea.  With a hurricane, there could be windspeeds upwards of 100 mph.  Would this be sufficient to cause prop windmilling with the engine off?

[skydvrboy]

2 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

if you can tie down the gear, you can tie down through the tiedown points.

Not always true.  When I bought my plane, the tiedown rings were bolts with chain links poorly welded to the end.  During a windy day, one of them snapped off.  Fortunately, my local IA looked out and noticed my tiedown strap whipping in the wind.  He proceeded to secure the plane by tying down the same side landing gear.  No damage was done, but new tiedown rings were ordered the same day!

[Igor_U]

2 hours ago, steingar said:

Personally, I think the guy should've gotten his airplane out of the way of the hurricane.  Sorry, they're big slow moving things.  Should be able get a beloved airplane away from that.

 

So,

There are lineups at Home depot for plywood you need to board up your house, you back yard needs prepping for incoming Michael, 2 million Floridians are driving north so you need to top off gas tank on all your cars and generator tanks, your newly born need baby formula for extra week or two, wife is scared, your dog want your attention and favorite kitten of your 3y daughter got lost…

And you’ll drop all that and leave your family for two weeks just to move your 50 year old plane to Pennsylvania, away from storm and wait it out in motel room, on your own?

 

I see you have your priorities straight!

 

I guess it’s hard to  imagine what is happening at such time if you didn’t experience it.

 

Cheers,

[gsxrpilot]

2 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

 

So,

There are lineups at Home depot for plywood you need to board up your house, you back yard needs prepping for incoming Michael, 2 million Floridians are driving north so you need to top off gas tank on all your cars and generator tanks, your newly born need baby formula for extra week or two, wife is scared, your dog want your attention and favorite kitten of your 3y daughter got lost…

And you’ll drop all that and leave your family for two weeks just to move your 50 year old plane to Pennsylvania, away from storm and wait it out in motel room, on your own?

 

I see you have your priorities straight!

 

I guess it’s hard to  imagine what is happening at such time if you didn’t experience it.

 

Cheers,

Over the last several years I've been on MooneySpace, there has never been any shortage of fully qualified pilots (acceptable to insurance) ready to show up and move your plane out of the path of the hurricane. At no cost at all. It's been offered over and over again. It makes no sense that people wouldn't take advantage of that. 

Secondly, since insurance is happy to pay for it... load up the family, in the Mooney, skip all the traffic clogging the interstate north, and fly somewhere nice to ride out the storm. 

Sorry, I've been through it and don't buy the excuse...