Jump to content

Turn Coordinator or second attitude indicator?

jetdriven

By jetdriven
in General Mooney Talk

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 67
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

aviatoreb
aviatoreb

What I have set up now is not necessarily my final setup.  I am just using my old iphone 4 and a bad elf.  No iLevil.  I might get an iLevil.  I am not sure.  I would most definitely get an iLevil if

carusoam
carusoam

I think the turn coordinator may have gone the way of the ADF and Loran...A valuable tool that still works, but quite possibly has been surpassed. Back in the day it was a nice gyro that could run o

jetdriven
jetdriven

If your attitude indicator is "spinning" you are almost certainly finished.  I think a second AI will prevent you begin in that situation in the first place.   Also, the second AI must have a slip/ski

aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted
If going with an iPad or iPod/iPhone as a backup is an option, I'd go down the Xavion route.  Getting hoop guidance to an airport is a definite bonus.  Pushing higher accuracy AHRS/GPS data to the app is the next step, but iLevil should have a good battery powered unit for ~$1200 out soon (with FIS/TIS/ADS- B).  Complete electrical & engine failure IMC or night is now managable. 

 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/xavion/id574203838?mt=8

http://www.aviation.levil.com/iLevil.htm

 

I haven't purchased the app yet, but am seriously considering doing so.  My only reservation now is that the iPad is mounted to the RH yoke, so the internal 'gyros' would be useless.  Panel mounting the iPad is not really an option in the old '63 M20C.  Maybe I can work out something for my old iPhone...

 

I recently installed the xavion ap on my iThings.  It is very impressive. Head and shoulders above the other several SVT aps for iThings. I have flown with it a few times and it seems to give quite correct indications and displayed in a very easy to use and elegant attractive display.  What else would be expect from the guy who made xplane?

 

After lots of trial and error - I have a really great mounting solution/placement for my iphone to run it full time too.   I will post when I get a chance.

AndyFromCB Veteran

AndyFromCB

Posted
Posted

My two cents, the RC Allen digital gyro is only $1000 more than the dynon, is certified and in two years of using one, I've never had a single issue. When my castleberry dies in 767RD, it will get replaced with another RC Allen digital gyro.

AndyFromCB Veteran

AndyFromCB

Posted
Posted
I just installed an RC Allen2600-3 an old aircraft as primary, as it is an all electric system. I wasn't impressed at all with the display quality of the unit, the screen was very jittery, for a high tech 2500 piece of equipment. My pirep without even flying behind it. I was stoked about getting one as standby till seeing it in action.

 

What do you mean it's jittery? If you mean, it's extremely sensitive and shows even minor pitch and bank variations, then I agree. That's exactly what I want in a gyro.

AndrewR Rookie

AndrewR

Posted
Posted
I recently installed the xavion ap on my iThings.  It is very impressive. Head and shoulders above the other several SVT aps for iThings. I have flown with it a few times and it seems to give quite correct indications and displayed in a very easy to use and elegant attractive display.  What else would be expect from the guy who made xplane?

 

After lots of trial and error - I have a really great mounting solution/placement for my iphone to run it full time too.   I will post when I get a chance.

 

I've been flying X-Plane since about '97 and fly it multiple times a week.  Can't get enough of it.

 

Do you feed the iPhone with external AHRS/GPS data or do you use the internal sensors?  I'd be interetested to know since I have the Dual 150 but will be waiting to see the iLevil in production for about 6 months before purchasing.  I'd also need to figure out a way to vertically mount the iPhone if internal data is used.

aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted
I've been flying X-Plane since about '97 and fly it multiple times a week.  Can't get enough of it.

 

Do you feed the iPhone with external AHRS/GPS data or do you use the internal sensors?  I'd be interetested to know since I have the Dual 150 but will be waiting to see the iLevil in production for about 6 months before purchasing.  I'd also need to figure out a way to vertically mount the iPhone if internal data is used.

 

What I have set up now is not necessarily my final setup.  I am just using my old iphone 4 and a bad elf.  No iLevil.  I might get an iLevil.  I am not sure.  I would most definitely get an iLevil if I was planning to use this thing as a backup attitude indicator.  

 

I have currently a vacuum gyro with a backup electric vacuum pump, and a second attitude gyro which is electric, and i have a rocket which in my opinion has a better setup than a dual alternator system in that it has two 35amp batteries which can run the electrics for quite a while.  Plus I still have my turn coordinator.  So I feel I have enough "keep my wings level" instrumentation with redundancy.

 

So why get Xavion for me.  2 reasons.

-secondary reason I admit is for situational awareness.  It is nice to look at a displace in imc and see that the terrain is far away - even though the same information is in all my other instruments, gps, gps with terrain, and so forth, it is one more bit of easy to understand situational awareness. Okay ...this one is the excuse.

-primary reason.  It is very nifty gee whiz.  I always found the notion of svt to be cool, and this is bar far the best most beautiful I have seen.  But there is more - this guy built a really super data-assimulation computational engine into his software running behind the scenes.  You know how garmin 396/496 has its patented inferred attitude indications from the gps ground tracking?  I always figured that someone could make a higher quality version with even a low quality accelerometer.  See data assimulation is one of my areas as I am a mathematician in that line of business.  Well, this guy did it and did it beautifully. Using the iphones built in accelerometers, it is assimulating two different kinds of data streams (gps ground track and also the low-quality built in iphone 3 axis accelerometry) to filter a rather higher quality model of attitude despite low quality instruments.  The result is impressive.  So see it floats my boat to see a beautiful implementation of this concept.

 

When taxiing on the ground, the indication of attitude is incorrect, but in flight, I have never seen anything but attitudes that are anything but perfect as compared to my two certified instruments and also me view out the window. Very impressive.

 

If it were not showing good indications I would either try to disable the attitude indications or buy a iLevil since while I am only wanting it for situational awareness I figure it could be confusing to see an incorrect indication rather than no attitude indication.  Still I may eventually get an iLevil, though I can say I don't like the idea of too many things plugged into my lighter.  Maybe the solar version of the iLevil. Anyway, I am convinced this thing could do the job of keeping yoru wings level in a pinch just as I have it now. 

 

Can't wait to show you guys the cool way I mounted my iPhone. It is so simple and so convenient.  Its a surprise.  Its a blizzard today so I won't drive the 1 mi to the airport but maybe tomorrow.  I just hope it isn't so much snow that the snow berms become to high for me to taxi to the runways!  That has happened before.

  • Like 2
Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted

Tie breakers. Vacuum, dual electric AHRS with separate backup power supplies. If I don't get it right in the clouds, Darwin was correct about me...

 

 

 

 

post-9886-0-70180800-1360364342_thumb.jp

  • Like 1
aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted

I went to the hangar and took some pictures - but I forgot how to upload them here.  Oh - and do you guys see my avatar picture?  I don't even though it has been uploaded for a long time.

 

2ft of fresh snow!  Gorgeous.  My hangar is immediately across from the rescue helicopter hangar so our little area of taramac gets top plowing priority - so I got in to check on the plane and take pics of my Xavion setup.  Otherwise no flying today - the runway has not been touched yet since it is a very big job plowing out everything today.

Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted
Okay, I published my pictures on my gallery, http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/album/13682-n10933/
You have been busy! I went the Nexus 7, Garmin Pilot route for my alternate source of information. I had the iPad 2 in the plane on various Ram mounts. Never found a position that it didnt either blocked something or got in the way. Waiting for the new Ram mount for the Nexus to show up. Where are the pictures of the snow? We missed it here completely (northern Delaware). Not complaining but thought for sure we would have gotten a little bit of it.
aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted
You have been busy! I went the Nexus 7, Garmin Pilot route for my alternate source of information. I had the iPad 2 in the plane on various Ram mounts. Never found a position that it didnt either blocked something or got in the way. Waiting for the new Ram mount for the Nexus to show up. Where are the pictures of the snow? We missed it here completely (northern Delaware). Not complaining but thought for sure we would have gotten a little bit of it.

 

What else am I going to do while hybernating in a blizzard, but build high tech svt avionics out of little bits of paperclips, zip ties and velcro?

 

I love snow and we have had a bit of a warm spell so I am glad for the snow.  Okay - no pics of airport right now, but here is a pic from my house (does this count as topic drift?) - I just finished grooming our household xc ski track with our snowmobile.  It needs to sit for a few hours (settle) then I will groom it again and then my boys and I will do some laps.

 

Airport is still unplowed.  A shame since it is bright white and blue out there as you can see - crisp air and still winds.  Couldn't be a better day to fly except for lack of a runway.

carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

You have a good point EB. The one time I wish I had a Cessna was pedestrian, snow too tall to taxi....

iLevel with connection to the pitot/static system would be nice. Need to work on how to tap into P/S legally though.

-a-

AndrewR Rookie

AndrewR

Posted
Posted

Okay, I published my pictures on my gallery,  http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/album/13682-n10933/

 

That mounting is beautiful.  I like the eye level location and the temporary binder clip.  I'm going to have to see what I can work out on the C.  I have an old iPhone 3G that would be a perfect for this role, but I don't think Xavion will work on the old iOS; need to use the new 5 but without the velcro as it resides in my pocket most of the time.  With the new VAL INS-429 FlyTester and I installed in 78U I expect to be IMC a lot more and having the Xavion as a secondary independently-powered backup to the TC will definitely add a layer of safety.

 

Thanks for the Xavion review and photos!

 

- Andrew

aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted

Thanks Andrew.

 

If I were not velcro'ing the iphone directly to the clip - which I do mostly because it is more chic and slimline with no other mount visible - if I wanted to have the phone be removable, I was almost going to go this route:

 

http://www.jpcycles.com/product/502-560?utm_source=none&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&gclid=CJyPtPm7r7UCFYWo4AodkWwAeA

 

A clip mount like that could even be epoxied to the back of the clip with a nice firm puddy epoxy so that the clip stays always in place and you can take the phone in and out quickly - otherwise mount the clip to the dash just as I showed. You will not be able to use the clips to open the claw as I do since the phone clip will be in the way, but you can pry it open with a secondary tool like a vice grip to put into place.

 

I neglected to mention that I have a thin piece of foam between the clip and the dash to protect the dash and to provide some shock absorption, and improve the rubbery grip.

aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted

We need to introduce the Xavion guy to TestWest to get some Mooney specific version of the app.

Best regards,

-a-

 

Thanks - I think I fixed it - did I?

 Share
Go to topic listing


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.