TruTrak Autopilot Pre Order's / Status Update

[ArtVandelay]

That’s my point in a nutshell... the garmin could have put everything in the autopilot, but instead, chose to break the unit into tiny pieces so they could ring every $ out of the equipment.
 
 

 
 

They did
If you want it all...GFC 600 is it, plus better servos...$17k or so. So it might be a better option for those that don’t need the G5. Of course it’s not approved for Mooneys.

[Wes]

Been flying my E (certification plane) and will tell you that the GFC500 is everything and more than I could have imagined. Everything is on the numbers. Smooth, state of the art system. Definitely a game changer...flying taken to another level. Hope all of you have the opportunity to experience it.

[Navi]

1 hour ago, nosky2high said:

It will be interesting to see if STEC cuts the prices drastically on the system 20/30 to see if they can still get a few more years of sales out of them. They were great systems on previous airplanes I’ve owned. 
 

Come on BK/Andrew, don’t let us down.

We originally looked at a S-Tec Sys 20 (Alt Hold) to add to our Century one..

Found a used one out of a wind upset Archer. for $4500

So...

S-tec wanted...

$2350 for the STC.

Servo to be returned for re-certification $1900

New wiring harness required, $1250

Head overhauled. re-certed. $900

.... Before the STC would be Issued. 

$4280 USD before we could use our  $4500 used  Al Hold accessory.. 

Big mistake, - I mentioned the used (200 hours) parts were coming out of a damaged aircraft.. (upset in a storm)  FORGET IT!  STC will never be issued for a component in a "crashed" airplane.

Then the Certified TruTrak came to be....   

Thankfully the world has moved on.... 

Nav

 

 

 

[tmo]

18 hours ago, Navi said:

Thankfully the world has moved on.... 

Isn't the STEC approach similar to what King want to do with people who want to upgrade their current KFC autopilots to the AeroCruze 230?

[ZuluZulu]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:30 AM, Navi said:

 

 On the head display or the Navigator display? 

Assuming you mean the Navigator.. Not really. 

Both brands have similar screen areas and resolutions, the differences are minor and operationally insignificant. I would be more critical if it was a rendition of a colour photograph or a home theatre, but  a pilot  needs it only to get "Information" in this case. 

At 30 inches (eyeball to display) the human eye can only discern  a certain pixel size, after which an increase in pixilation is not visible. Both screen resolutions are near or at this limit now.

 

The new Garmins have a larger screen, but the tradeoff has its cost.. 

Here is a post from another forum that explains it better than I can..  (more display size <> space for knobs) 

This is a "limitation" ... 

Nav

---------------------------------------------------------------------

(Name  removed) 

December 14 at 8:24 AM  · 

I recently had a GTN650Xi installed. I was all excited to have newer technology. Yesterday I flew in some pretty hefty bumpy air.

It was a textbook day to demonstrate why a touchscreen has no place in a GA cockpit.

Had I been in IMC with all the errant entries and the extra touches trying to correct the errors, I could see the possibility of losing aircraft control from the amazingly increased workload. Fortunately, I was able to use the autopilot while straightening out the mess.

I shouldn’t need to rely on an autopilot while making simple inputs frequency inputs to a NAV/COM GPS.

In short, I’m not pleased with the touchscreen AT ALL !

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ah, so it's not a limitation because you personally find a smaller screen "minor and operationally insignificant."  To each his own I guess.

[Navi]

1 hour ago, ZuluZulu said:

Ah, so it's not a limitation because you personally find a smaller screen "minor and operationally insignificant."  To each his own I guess.

 Hmmm... Perhaps I am mistaken..

 

The info I have...

IFD 540, - 5.7 "  Diag.

GNS 530 - 5 " In Diag. 

 

IFD 440 - 4.8 " Diag.

GNS 430 - 3.8 " Diag.

 

Garmin 750 XI 6.9 " Diag. with 30% + sacrificed for the touch buttons.   Leaving about a 5" diagonal for Nav display..

May I ask what you are comparing?  ( I may have some dimensions wrong) 

I see a difference  for sure.. from different "classes " of product, but among products with the same "form factor" , I find the display sizes similar.. 

Cheers!

N 

 

 

[Sandman993]

14 minutes ago, Navi said:

 Hmmm... Perhaps I am mistaken..

 

The info I have...

IFD 540, - 5.7 "  Diag.

GNS 530 - 5 " In Diag. 

 

IFD 440 - 4.8 " Diag.

GNS 430 - 3.8 " Diag.

 

Garmin 750 XI 6.9 " Diag. with 30% + sacrificed for the touch buttons.   Leaving about a 5" diagonal for Nav display..

May I ask what you are comparing?  ( I may have some dimensions wrong) 

I see a difference  for sure.. from different "classes " of product, but among products with the same "form factor" , I find the display sizes similar.. 

Cheers!

N 

 

 

I guess to folks in California, size does matter. My girlfriend thinks from here [ To here  ] is 6 inches. Depends on what size screen.

[ZuluZulu]

 

4 hours ago, Navi said:

 Hmmm... Perhaps I am mistaken..

 

The info I have...

IFD 540, - 5.7 "  Diag.

GNS 530 - 5 " In Diag. 

 

IFD 440 - 4.8 " Diag.

GNS 430 - 3.8 " Diag.

 

Garmin 750 XI 6.9 " Diag. with 30% + sacrificed for the touch buttons.   Leaving about a 5" diagonal for Nav display..

May I ask what you are comparing?  ( I may have some dimensions wrong) 

I see a difference  for sure.. from different "classes " of product, but among products with the same "form factor" , I find the display sizes similar.. 

Cheers!

N 

 

 

My point, which I clearly didn’t make very well or I wouldn’t have to spell it out, was that they’re both fine navigators, I just found it odd to declare that one has no limitations when to me it’s clear that they both do. The IFD gives quite a lot of its screen space over to UI cruft, too. It has physical buttons down the left side but then gives the left side of the screen itself to frequencies and other elements. Sometimes there’s a column on the right side with more information, so the moving map is basically a little postage stamp, when it could have been made larger without the physical buttons. Some are going to like the IFD’s design with its limitations better, some are going to like the GTN’s, but I just think it’s silly to pretend there’s only one clear choice. It’s fine if people pick one or the other but it doesn’t mean one is for true IFR fliers and the other isn’t. If that’s not what you were saying, then I misread you. 

[tmo]

I understood Navi was talking about the autopilots, with TT being more "light IFR" and Garmin "the whole 9 yards", not the navigators that drive them. But he'll surely speak up.

[ArtVandelay]

The GTN still has a knob you can use instead of the touch screen.
Also it has ridges you can grab to steady your hand, works well in all but the severe turbulence.

[Navi]

15 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

 

My point, which I clearly didn’t make very well or I wouldn’t have to spell it out, was that they’re both fine navigators, I just found it odd to declare that one has no limitations when to me it’s clear that they both do. The IFD gives quite a lot of its screen space over to UI cruft, too. It has physical buttons down the left side but then gives the left side of the screen itself to frequencies and other elements. Sometimes there’s a column on the right side with more information, so the moving map is basically a little postage stamp, when it could have been made larger without the physical buttons. Some are going to like the IFD’s design with its limitations better, some are going to like the GTN’s, but I just think it’s silly to pretend there’s only one clear choice. It’s fine if people pick one or the other but it doesn’t mean one is for true IFR fliers and the other isn’t. If that’s not what you were saying, then I misread you. 

 

Not at all.. looks we are on the same page!

I would be happy with either.. 

I looked back to see if I wrote  "No limitations". I found one, it was in reference to the operability of the Garmin AP with the IFD Navigators, and, true, I know of no limitations in its ability to work with the GFC<>G5 combination.  Perhaps there was another time.. 

I triggered on the "limitation" of screen sizes, that I understood were very similar, with a difference of 5-10 % not making a "operational" difference (or limitation) either way. 

I see some very significand advantages of the IFD software and menus, especially for "hard IFR" flying, and I resource a couple of guys who fly a lot of hard IFR that can offer a very rational discussion of the advantages of the IFDs. I do have a serious respect for any opinions these guys have offered. 

However, hard IFR is not my jam, so I can be a lot more flexible !    Love to have the bigger screens, but I have completely run out of panel real estate. If I had the room and the mission, I would have the IFD 540. 

I think Garmin has  some great products, but also some "not so great" stuff as well, and their customer support can be .. ummm... challenging..

But not  a Garmin hater.. at all! I just wrote a cheque for a nosebleed upgrade that includes a Garmin 175.  And it will just fit!  

>> It’s fine if people pick one or the other but it doesn’t mean one is for true IFR fliers and the other isn’t. If that’s not what you were saying, then I misread you. 

Certainly not what I was thinking, perhaps a poor choice of words on my part.  I think the "all touch screens" in an aircraft, are the ones with the limitations, but that , as you correctly point out, is subjective as well!

All good..

Nav

 

[Navi]

9 hours ago, tmo said:

I understood Navi was talking about the autopilots, with TT being more "light IFR" and Garmin "the whole 9 yards", not the navigators that drive them. But he'll surely speak up.

 

Of course!   

Correct, If I was plowing through clag every other flight, I would have absolutely installed the Garmin despite having to put up with that  G5.. !  But it is at it's best in conditions I absolutely  avoid, and the TT was the perfect solution. "Light IFR" is  a perfect descriptor.

Although not approved for coupled approaches, it has proven  many times, that, coupled to a good navigator, it can put you on the centerline in an emergency. 

Thanks for the clarification! 

Nav

[cliffy]

Anything new from dream world here?

[Sandman993]

Volcano is dormant 

[ArtVandelay]

I assume that if there’s any news, it would come just before or during Sun&Fun in April, thereby maximizing the marketing exposure.

[MBDiagMan]

The alignment of the planets in December didn’t even shake it loose.  It won’t happen in my lifetime.  In the software industry I retired from, we had a term that covered this sort of thing, “Vaporware.”

[Lionudakis]

I’m switching gears towards a Dynon HDX system. I’m not much of a gambler, but I’d bet on Dynon getting an autopilot to market before TT/BK. TruTrak before the merger maybe, but with BK anywhere in the loop, I don’t know. 

[carusoam]

8 minutes ago, Lionudakis said:

I’m switching gears towards a Dynon HDX system. I’m not much of a gambler, but I’d bet on Dynon getting an autopilot to market before TT/BK. TruTrak before the merger maybe, but with BK anywhere in the loop, I don’t know. 

Very important... have you seen the letter writing campaign..?

Find @Baker Avionics.   Greg has a request in a thread around here...

It is to support getting the Mooney / Dynon AP closer to the front of the line... at Dynon...

This may be helpful as we wait for TT to get organized...

Best regards,

-a-

[Lionudakis]

Yes ! I did today, and passed it along to several others not on here. We can hope it works 

[NJMac]

20 minutes ago, Lionudakis said:

Yes ! I did today, and passed it along to several others not on here. We can hope it works 

I did the same thing.  Even if I move to an R, someone is going to want an AP for my E

[Bob R]

Hey All,

Since it appears TT or King Bendix will never come out or STC their autopilot, I'm now looking at the Garmin GFC 500 for my 69 M20E. I have an initial quote of approximately 17K which includes the third servo for the trim. Those of you who do installations and such, I'm in California and I am wondering if this is reasonable as they're quoting it's about 100 hours to install. Any help or advice would be appreciated. I'm certainly not against flying the airplane out of state to save a little bit but obviously I want a really good job on it.

[ArtVandelay]

Hey All,
Since it appears TT or King Bendix will never come out or STC their autopilot, I'm now looking at the Garmin GFC 500 for my 69 M20E. I have an initial quote of approximately 17K which includes the third servo for the trim. Those of you who do installations and such, I'm in California and I am wondering if this is reasonable as they're quoting it's about 100 hours to install. Any help or advice would be appreciated. I'm certainly not against flying the airplane out of state to save a little bit but obviously I want a really good job on it.

That’s pretty good since I assume it includes the G5.

[hammdo]

100 hrs to install and over 1/3 value of my plane - I may have to hand fly for a while ;o)

David pre wired the TruTrak so I’m going to have to wait ;o)

Will be a nice setup when you get it installed....

although I’m getting G5 installed next week 

-Don

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, Bob R said:

Hey All,

Since it appears TT or King Bendix will never come out or STC their autopilot, I'm now looking at the Garmin GFC 500 for my 69 M20E. I have an initial quote of approximately 17K which includes the third servo for the trim. Those of you who do installations and such, I'm in California and I am wondering if this is reasonable as they're quoting it's about 100 hours to install. Any help or advice would be appreciated. I'm certainly not against flying the airplane out of state to save a little bit but obviously I want a really good job on it.

That's a good bid if it includes both the GAD29B and the G5.  For just a little more money I'd add the 4th servo.  To get the most benefit from it, though, you need either the GTN 650 or 750.

[Sandman993]

3 hours ago, Bob R said:

Hey All,

Since it appears TT or King Bendix will never come out or STC their autopilot, I'm now looking at the Garmin GFC 500 for my 69 M20E. I have an initial quote of approximately 17K which includes the third servo for the trim. Those of you who do installations and such, I'm in California and I am wondering if this is reasonable as they're quoting it's about 100 hours to install. Any help or advice would be appreciated. I'm certainly not against flying the airplane out of state to save a little bit but obviously I want a really good job on it.

With the autopilot priced around 7k and the 100hrs at labor rate of $100 per hr... you forgot the $10,000 for the acquisition and installation of 2 G5’s... yes, I know you can operate the gfc500 with one g5, but one g5 will leave you wanting. The full capability of the autopilot will only work with 2. Suffice it to say, you’ll buy your airplane again.