Engine Overhaul/Change

[KSMooniac]

No need, Jim.  I've read the quotes and really scratched my head at their reasoning.  They either didn't talk to many Mooney owners, or the ones they spoke to hadn't figured out where the sweet spot is for these birds. 

[fantom]

I'd be interested in what Bill Cox paid for his exhaust system, and how many customers really take advantage of the 60 day return policy, even after the install and take off costs, plus looking for another exhaust system.

Caveat Emptor, my friends!

[MooneyPilot231]

Let me offer some advice in regards to roller lifters. I owned a high end (25k-100k per engine) race engine shop until a few years ago. Lubricants have changed substantially in the last 10 years and we made it very clear to any customer wanting a flat
tappet engine that we would not stand behind the camshaft if it failed. We started using Crane cam lube and pretty much eliminated any failures but the truth is automotive lubricants are designed for roller bearing camshafts. In truth, lubricants have
progressed to the point that most engines should last 200k miles. The Dodge and Ford diesel engines we converted to diesel race truck engines were good for 350k+. My point is that lubricants are being designed for roller tappet engines, I would not miss the opportunity to convert to that type of valve train at any cost. I am very surprised there has not been more camshaft failures in aircraft engines. Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

[MooneyPilot231]

Sorry, didn't see that you had already made the decision to go with the flat tappet engine. I would feel much safer behind one
with a roller valve train. As far as hp increase you could expect about 7-10h.p. increase going from flat tappet to roller. That I can assure you having dyno'd many, many engines....

[mooniac58]

Quote: Rustler

I read this and wondered if you could have been reading MPH instead of KPH, since 150 knots is 173 MPH.

Well, Mooney claimed the J model was a 201MPH bird.  Hence the 201 notation in its name.  My handy flight computer tells me that 201MPH is roughly 172KTS.  The "201" was the first certified airplane to break the 1MPH per horsepower barrier (and still holds this title today if I am not mistaken).

While I know literature top speeds and the real world are different - a 15-20KT difference is pretty drastically different than advertised (8% less).  I read AOPA pilot and they said the new Acclaim they test flew actually hit 240 KTS @ FL250...only 2KTS lower than advertised or just .08% less.

Perhaps I am missing something here?

EDIT: 201MPH is actually 174.6KTS!   But this of course makes my points even more valid.

[fantom]

That 201 MPH number came from Marketing, not Engineering, and we all understand about sales people....don' we?

According to Bill Kromer, former Mooney President, MAPA Director, and long time Mooney factory test pilot, the 201 may have hit that number once, but the conditions were sooooo optimized, as to to un-worldly.

My MSE, right out of the factory, would give me 168 KTAS full out. Now, it's lost about 5 kts, while I've gained about 10 pounds. Could there be a correlation?

[fantom]

As I recall, throttle wide open, prop at 2,500, 100 degress ROP, 7 or 8,000 feet, fuel gauges at about half, and flying alone.

I'm not speed freak, so I don't take any delight it having "a faster 201". For long flight planning purposes, when the plane was new I used to plan for 165 KTAS, gear up to gear down, and get it. Maybe 11 GPH.

Now I plan for 160 KTAS and usually get it. Same conditions, but with throttle not all the way in, about 65 - 68%. Maybe 10.5 GPH. I use the power charts and the old trusty 50/47/44 guideline (MP + RPM). My engine is mid time, and my compressions are all mid 70's. She runs fine LOP, saving about 1.5 GPH, and losing maybe 5 kts. Since my CHT's  are in the low to mid 300 range, my oil stays at about 180, and I hate to give up speed or see that extra 100 degrees of EGT, I don't fly LOP too often.

YMMV....

[mooniac58]

At WOT and 2500RPM @ 8000ft I only see 155KTS.  I have 1850 hrs on the engine, but only about 300 on the cylinders.  Seems kind of slow for a J model, no?

[Parker_Woodruff]

I'm getting 154-157 KTAS at 8000', WOT, 2550-2600RPM, 45-55 dF LOP on the richest cylinder.

 

Best TAS I've seen was for a short time running ROP and I got 168 out of it.

 

Mine has almost 7000 hours but also has some speed mods.

[z4t143]

I'm doing research for the first engine overhaul we've been part of for our 1964 M20E with an IO-360-A1A.  I'm considering The New Firewall Forward in Loveland, CO with their Centrilube Camshaft STC.

Since this is all new to me, I'd appreciate any opinions or experiences with The New Firewall Forward as a company along with any firsthand experience with the Centrilube Camshaft STC. 

Thanks in advance for the help!

[rotorman]

Quote: Cruiser

I had a FREM w/roller tappets installed last year in my 84 M20J. I don't have any speed checks from before the exchange. I did do a brief run 25x2500 full rich with the new engine at 1500 MSL and got 168kts.

[mjc]

Quote: mooniac58

Well, Mooney claimed the J model was a 201MPH bird.  Hence the 201 notation in its name.  My handy flight computer tells me that 201MPH is roughly 172KTS.  The "201" was the first certified airplane to break the 1MPH per horsepower barrier (and still holds this title today if I am not mistaken).

While I know literature top speeds and the real world are different - a 15-20KT difference is pretty drastically different than advertised (8% less).  I read AOPA pilot and they said the new Acclaim they test flew actually hit 240 KTS @ FL250...only 2KTS lower than advertised or just .08% less.

Perhaps I am missing something here?

EDIT: 201MPH is actually 174.6KTS!   But this of course makes my points even more valid.

[jetdriven]

Quote: Rustler

The facts: 1980 M20 J, IO360 A3B6D, 1870 hrs TTAF/E, never topped

The proposal: Purchase an IO360 A3B6, freshly overhauled by Western Skyways. I don't know how many hours on this engine's case. New ECI nickeled cylinders. Usual accessories, my SkyTech starter.

The questions: 1) What are folks' experiences with Western Skyways? 2) Are there any problems upgrading the engine to the true dual-mag A3B6? 3) Are there any suggestions for making this an easy transition? [i sure will save down time by having the new engine delivered before taking out the old one, I think.] 4) Any ideas in general?

Thanks for your help.

 

[jetdriven]

Quote: mooniac58

 That is nice.  I really never see better than 156 KTAS.  Got to admit it is pretty slow and no where near 201 MPH