Taking the plunge

[Ned Gravel]

I have owned C-FSWR for over 12 years now, and I have finally committed the resources to putting her in the /G category.  Clarence found a great price on a GNS 480 for me while he was at Sun'n'Fun and brought it home last weekend.  As many of you already know, an E model does not have a lot of panel room so if I want to keep two CDI's, one of them is going to have to be part of an HSI.  See pic below where the HDG bug is driving the autopilot enroute to Wichita from St. Louis with the TNL 2000A monitoring deviations before switching my one NAV radio over from Vichy (VIH) to Butler (BUM).

These are the anticipated changes.  DG goes.  Narco 810 goes.  TNL 2000A goes.  Move the Narco Mk 12D down to allow the GNS 480 to sit just below the audio panel.  All good.

So which HSI works with a 480?  Lots do, but not a lot of them are simple plug and play.  KCS 55 or STEC 180 or Collins ProLine.  Varying in price from less than 1 AMU for a Collins to 4.5 AMUs for the full King system.  Ouch.  If I want something to help in terms of GPSS, it really has to be an electric one with software guts. 

Bunch of advantages: off of the vacuum pump; good battery life in the event of an electrical failure; GPSS and roll steering; works with my STEC 50. 

Only one choice at less than 8 AMUs.  Garmin G5 for 3.5 AMUs.  So that is what I am doing.  Has almost everything an Aspen has, but even with one as an HSI and one as an EFIS (AI), the boxes cost less than 6 AMUs.  I know, I know - installation is another matter and these two (480 and G5 HSI) will cost me nearly the value of the boxes to install them.  Sheesh. 

But soon I will be equipped for travel in the 21st Century.

In case anyone wants to raise it, the KR 97 stays.  We still have NDBs in Canada.

When I get back from Thailand in May - C-FSWR goes into the shop for a combo avionics installation and then to Clarences for its annual.  When I get back from a bunch of places in Asia in June, she will be ready for heavy duty practice.  

I will post updates.

[MIm20c]

I agree that the G5 is definitely the way to go. I’d be tempted to just buy the single HSI and run the wires for the future AI install. With your AP being driven by the TC you have an extra margin of safety against a vac or AI failure. You will really like the gpss!

[Robert C.]

Sounds like a great plan! We look forward to the pictures this summer

Robert

[yvesg]

Attaboy Ned. Welcome to the RNAV world. Hope it does not break the bank. How much is the total cost?

Yves

[Ned Gravel]

Yves:

3.5 AMU for the 480 and 13 AMU for the G5 and install of both of them.  17 AMU I was not really thinking of spending this year.

[carusoam]

Congrats, Ned!

Another E gets the status of a forever plane!

Keep in mind... even if Canada has NDBs... your 480 can probably find them as well... 

They might be a challenge to find in the database, since their ID is probably a two letter name...

Get ready to post a lot of updates and pics.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Yves:
3.5 AMU for the 480 and 13 AMU for the G5 and install of both of them.  17 AMU I was not really thinking of spending this year.

Every time I went to do an avionics upgrade, I said the same thing.

[McMooney]

can i ask what all is being done?  I'm thinking of doing the same thing come may/june.

 

my plan is garmin 300xl/480/430, G5

current quotes are around 5k for installation.

[Ned Gravel]

McMooney:

If you have seen the photo above as the start point, here goes.

• Narco 810 come out (COM 1 at the top under the audio panel). 
• TNL 2000A comes out (Trimble GPS at the bottom of the centre stack). 
• Move the Narco Mk 12D down (COM 1/NAV 2 under COM 1) to allow the GNS 480 (new IFR GPS) to sit just below the audio panel. 
• Remove the DG and install a Garmin G5 HSI in its place.

 

[Marauder]

Ned -- forgot to mention one thing. The monetary thing hurts but once it is done and you get to use the new stuff, you'll be happy that you did it. I have been flying behind the new panel for 6 years and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner. You only get one ticket for this ride we call "life".

[Ned Gravel]

13 minutes ago, David Herman said:

When the budget allows you may consider adding a second G5 above the one. (If I read correctly, you’re installing a single G5 in the place of the DG.) Aerodon (on here in the parts forum) has fabricated some neat flush mounts for single and dual G5’s. However, with your install, I believe (I’m not as familiar with the STC as I should be) in the event of a system failure  you can use the G5 as a primary attitude indicator. You can install it as its own GPS source and with an independent GPS antenna ... so in the event of a power failure it can operate independently of the panel GPS. I’m a little sketchy on the details ... as we installed ours to be the primary artificial horizon rather than an HSI. There are a few threads on here and Beechtalk where people much smarter than me discuss the G5 STC.

David:

That is the eventual plan.  Next year, another G5 as an EFIS to replace the vacuum driven AI (and the HSI becomes the backup to that) and the addition of one of the simpler ADS(B) out sources.

As for your later comment about ADF, I used to have a Bendix T12C where the KR 87 is now.  From close to 200 miles away, we could tune in one of the old AM stations on the long wire antenna.  While I realise that dialing in an NDB station on the 480 is one option, the KR 87 provides another.  I really like options, especially when things are tending towards an excitement I would rather avoid.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

David:

That is the eventual plan.  Next year, another G5 as an EFIS to replace the vacuum driven AI (and the HSI becomes the backup to that) and the addition of one of the simpler ADS(B) out sources.

As for your later comment about ADF, I used to have a Bendix T12C where the KR 87 is now.  From close to 200 miles away, we could tune in one of the old AM stations on the long wire antenna.  While I realise that dialing in an NDB station on the 480 is one option, the KR 87 provides another.  I really like options, especially when things are tending towards an excitement I would rather avoid.

 

ADF and VOR offer subscription free nav, but I do know someone who can clone the 480 nav data.

Clarence

[bradp]

Ned I just finished the G5 HSI install with my IA. GPSS is amazing.  Fist time flying with a true HSI in my mooney (although I’ve flown a G1000 panel in the past) and I was like wow what was I doing all these years.  It will take a few flights before I get comfy with the setup for IFR, but it’s definitely added capability to the aircraft.  And I have somehow managed to accumulate three panel mount AIs and two portable AHRSs if I end up upside down it should take some effort.  

[Ned Gravel]

I am on my way to Shanghai, then Kyoto, then Hong Kong, but C-FWSR is on her way to Brantford.

See https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFSWR.

So begins the journey to /G.

[Ned Gravel]

2 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

I am on my way to Shanghai, then Kyoto, then Hong Kong, but C-FWSR is on her way to Brantford.

See https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFSWR.

So begins the journey to /G.

 

Down at 21:14, safe and sound.  

[INA201]

The G5 HSI can be switched to horizon mode and back.  The G5 installed as just an attitude indicator cannot switch to HSI.  IMOP if doing just one G5 go with the HSI.   The GPSS is great and works extremely well with my old Century Autopilot without altitude hold.  Best money spent value wise on anything i've done.  

[gsxrpilot]

11 hours ago, INA201 said:

The G5 HSI can be switched to horizon mode and back.  The G5 installed as just an attitude indicator cannot switch to HSI.  IMOP if doing just one G5 go with the HSI.   

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times, but it's not my experience. My single G5 AI flips to the HSI at the push of a button.

[INA201]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times, but it's not my experience. My single G5 AI flips to the HSI at the push of a button.

Hmmmm, I was told differently. Did you buy it as attitude, and does it have gpss? Maybe the gpss is the part with the extra expense.

[gsxrpilot]

2 minutes ago, INA201 said:

Hmmmm, I was told differently. Did you buy it as attitude, and does it have gpss? Maybe the gpss is the part with the extra expense.

I bought it only as attitude to back up my Aspen. It's not connected to my autopilot so I don't know about the GPSS. But when I switch it to the HSI view it does show heading correctly. With the Aspen shut off, it will still show correct heading and could be used as a DG if needed. 

But I really only use it for Attitude and only as the secondary.

[Bolter]

11 minutes ago, INA201 said:

Hmmmm, I was told differently. Did you buy it as attitude, and does it have gpss? Maybe the gpss is the part with the extra expense.

Could it be a question of having the magnetometer installed with a true HSI install?  If you install the G5 as an AI and do not have the magnetometer, in HSI mode you are getting a GPS based compass display, not magnetic.  Therefore a typical install may not activate the HSI display option, but some may do it anyway?

+1 for loving the G5 upgrade in place of my old HSI.

[Jim Peace]

20 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

I am on my way to Shanghai, 

I was there yesterday (I think) it all blends together out here. Was supposed to fly NRT to ANC last night but T storms in Shanghai delayed our inbound tail.  Sitting in holding pattern now in Narita.  

Did you make it to PVG?

[steingar]

I hope the OP’s avionics guy knows what he’s doing, unlike the monkey working on my airplane.

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

I was there yesterday (I think) it all blends together out here. Was supposed to fly NRT to ANC last night but T storms in Shanghai delayed our inbound tail.  Sitting in holding pattern now in Narita.  

Did you make it to PVG?

I'm leaving for Asia tomorrow (Saturday) I'll be in Singapore on Monday and then Krabi Thailand the rest of the week.

[Jim Peace]

4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Krabi Thailand the rest of the week.

A little R & R on the nude beach?  

no pictures please

[Ned Gravel]

16 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

I was there yesterday (I think) it all blends together out here. Was supposed to fly NRT to ANC last night but T storms in Shanghai delayed our inbound tail.  Sitting in holding pattern now in Narita.  

Did you make it to PVG?

Yup.  Here now and about to crash for the night.  Acclimation day tomorrow. Work the next day.