Anybody actually install a GTN650/750 yet?

[John Pleisse]

Aviation Consumer's comments re: the GTN series was pointient. Stating these could be the last of center stack MFD/Navigaotrs, with future interests being devoted to PFD's.

I also think analysis should be retrospective. What are you evolving from? KX155 to a GTN 750...homerun! GNS/480 MX 200 combo? Not so much. Century H-S-I to an Aspen or Garmin PFD....giant leeps...and so on. Just dinged my pocketbook betting on Aspen and feel I may have bought a Pentium 386 w/ 64mb of RAM.

In any event, the GTN are an incremental leap at the very least. I agree, perhaps far better. I'd buy an Aspen PFD and a GTN 750 and mount them left panel and get rid of everything else......seriously.

[kortopates]

Quote: mooniac58

Honestly though, with an Aspen PFD and two MFDs I really don't use the GPS for anything other than keying in my route and selecting COM/NAV freqs.  For all moving map, traffic, Nexrad, HSI and everything else I am looking at the Aspens 99% of the time - the GPS basically becomes nothing more than an input device like a keyboard on a PC.

The GPS provides a lot more useful information than your HSI; especially flying approaches and working to keeping the needles centered. Don't have any time on the Aspen and so I wonder if can display this. So specifically does the Aspen display Desired Track, actual track, and cross-track error i.e. what do you have to tell you're deviating before the needles show you're actually off? I'd guess the HSI automatically updates to show desired track but assume the rest aren't shown?

I too have a separate MFD for situational awareness (GMX200) and my GPS's are never on a map page, but set up to display the above 3 fields along with GS, ETE, Dist and VSR. Which is getting used vigorously during any approach. Which makes me worry a bit about the newer 750 is If I eventually want to swap a 430 and a MFD for a new 750, as they are intended to do both functions, I don't want to loose the ability to simultaenously display 6 data fields and my geo-referenced plates together. Yet after my initial review of the user's manual the split screen functionality didn't look possible - but it was only a cursory review and I may have missed it or an ability to have fields on top of a map display. Would agree though that if Aspen displays those values as well I wouldn't have to scan to the GPS for them.

[scottfromiowa]

Aviation Consumer has a nice article on the Garmin GTN650 and 750.  They have a side by side photo showing 530/430 and Com panel and Transponder vs. 650/750 stack.  The Com panel and Transponder are integrated in the new so the panel real estate is reduced.  The 530/430 alone have a smaller footprint, but the screen size on the GTn's are way bigger as a lot of the buttons/knobs are gone with the touchscreen.  Consumer says +Larger, sharper screen makes 430/530 look pale...Touchscreen logic is well designed...w/inflation price is cheaper than 430/530 intro in the minus column...NOT a slide in replacement for 430/530.  My avionics "guy" has a pc based simulater (from Garmin) that allows you to play with the new GTN...It is pretty awesome in the time I used.  For Mooney the reduced footprint with combined transponder/Com panel is attractive.  Definitely an evolution to the future "voice command" scenario.

[flyboy0681]

Looking at the GTN750 manual, you can set the map page to display any four fields with the following values:

BRG-Bearing                                                         GSL-GPS Altitude
DIS-Distance to Current Waypoint                           MSA-Minimum Safe Altitude                                     
DIS to DEST-Distance to Destination                       OAT (static)-Static Outside Air Temperature
DTK-Desired Track                                                OAT (total)-Total Air Temperature
ESA-Estimated Safe Altitude                                   Time-Current Time
ETA-Estimated Time of Arrival                                TKE-Track Angle Error
ETE-Estimated Time Enroute                                   Trip Timers
Fuel Flow-Total Fuel Flow                                       TRK-Track
Generic Timer                                                        VSR-Verticle Speed Required
GS-Ground Speed                                                   Wind-Wind speed and direction
                                                                             XTK-Cross Track Error

 

 

 

[kortopates]

Quote: flyboy0681

Looking at the GTN750 manual, you can set the map page to display any four fields with the following values:...

[scottfromiowa]

Eye Candy

[flyboy0681]

Quote: kortopates

Cool - thanks!

[mooniac58]

Quote: kortopates

 That is true.  I will keep the 430W on one of two pages, either the far left NAV page with CDI indications, distance & time to waypoint, etc.  Or I will have it on the FPL page to show my full flight plan and time to each point.  As in the attached image, I normally have it showing my flight plan.  The course deviation on the HSI is accurate enough to know my autopilot is doing its job.

The Aspen displays just your IAS, TAS, Ground Speed, Altitude, artificial horizon, Magnetic Heading, ground track (MFD only), Previous Waypoint, Next Waypoint, Waypoint after that, time to next waypoint, OAT, and Wind Direction & Wind Speed.  It only has granular CDI indications for ILS loc/gs or WAAS approaches.  Enroute you just have the HSI, which I think is fine for enroute course tracking...but as you said the 430W can always give you refined course deviation data.

I am not sure the new 650 will improve this experience.  Don't get me wrong though, I think I will likely buy one in a year or so - but it will be more based on my addication to techie gadgets and less becuase it will improve the functionality in the cockpit.  But I hope I am wrong! ;-)

[mooniac58]

Quote: fantom

Every time I look at your panel, Craig, I marvel at it's beauty and ergonomic design. A GTN650 will be the cherry on top!

That's funny, every time I look at it I think "that could have been a Ferrari 360 Modena"

No just kidding, I have no regrets on the insanity of what I have done with my J...it is something I plan on hanging on to forever so I don't kid myself about resale values, etc.

[peter]

Quote: mooniac58

The Aspen displays *just* your IAS, TAS, Ground Speed, Altitude, artificial horizon, Magnetic Heading, ground track (MFD only), Previous Waypoint, Next Waypoint, Waypoint after that, time to next waypoint, OAT, and Wind Direction & Wind Speed.  It only has granular CDI indications for ILS loc/gs or WAAS approaches.  Enroute you just have the HSI, which I think is fine for enroute course tracking...but as you said the 430W can always give you refined course deviation data.

[Comatose]

Well, I played with my 650 as I was dropping my plane off to have it installed. Very, very nice. I don't see why it'd be too hard to use in light turbulence. Flight report in a week and a half!

I was serial number 516. I'm hoping they started the numbering at 1 and not 500.

[flyboy0681]

My 750 should be ready towards the end of next week. Not sure what the serial number is yet.

[fantom]

Quote: flyboy0681

My 750 should be ready towards the end of next week. Not sure what the serial number is yet.

[flyboy0681]

You have a deal. But just be forewarned, I may have to use the knobs.

[TLSDriver]

Interesting discussion about the Aspen and Garmin.  I recentlly added a 430w and an Aspen and the EA-100  The PFD is great and the 430w is very mature and solid.  EA-100 still needs some work.

I would really like to have xm weather.  At sun and fun the Aspen rep couldn't show me how to pull up a metar.  (To be fair he was a tech support guy and not the normal person demonstratating the gear.  Still, he was familair with the product and coudn't figure it out.  My wife joked as we walked away from the booth by saying," Honey, if he can't figure it out you don't have a chance.  Maybe she is right.)

So the way I figure it I can add a GTN and garmin xm reciever.  The 430 becomes a back up gps and the incredible GTN display becomes my MFD.  In that config I have the Apsen and a steam guage gyro for back up plus the aftermentioned two gps's.  

OR Add a second Aspen tube.  That becomes the MFD and would act as a backup to the first aspen going down.

Would love to hear some pro\cons.  I think saftey and utility are at top of the list and cost delta is at the bottom of this list. (but still very much on the list.)

[fantom]

Where I come from it's the co-pilot that handles the navigation chores :-)))

[TLSDriver]

I will pass that along.  If I am not back on MooneySpace in 24 hours please call the authorites.  

[fantom]

Quote: TLSDriver

OR Add a second Aspen tube.  That becomes the MFD and would act as a backup to the first aspen going down.

Would love to hear some pro\cons.  I think saftey and utility are at top of the list and cost delta is at the bottom of this list. (but still very much on the list.)

[peter]

G500 installed price rarely close to a tube two tube Aspen install price.  The G500 install labor alone is generally 2x to 3x what it take to put in Aspen equipment.

G500 has no means to support a dual/redundant AHRS architecture like the Aspen 2000 and 2500 systems.

Admitedly, I've got a bias, but I also fly behind our product in a Mooney and don't think Garmin comes close to offering the capability and flexibility provided by the Aspen.

[peter]

Quote: TLSDriver

I would really like to have xm weather.  At sun and fun the Aspen rep couldn't show me how to pull up a metar.  (To be fair he was a tech support guy and not the normal person demonstratating the gear.  Still, he was familair with the product and coudn't figure it out.  My wife joked as we walked away from the booth by saying," Honey, if he can't figure it out you don't have a chance.  Maybe she is right.)

[jelswick]

I love the Aspens I've added Peter, but between the weather this year, a boost pump failure requiring overhaul and then going into annual, I've only been able to fly behind them a few times since taking delivery of the installation late January.  I did purchase the weather unit and there is just a lot of data in the MFD.  I probably need more flying time to get used to it, but are there any other good training recommendations you have to get comfortable with all of this information now available to me? 

It's great, but even after watching the Sporty's training DVD many times (which did make getting used to the PFD a non-event for me), I'm still fumbling my way to building my confidence that I can get to what I want as quickly as I want with the MFD and weather.  That's likely the same with the G500, so not a comparison of the two, just looking for a way to speed up my learning curve.  I do sit behind it just thoroughly pleased and impressed with the installation job Ron Collins did on it and my panel.  Thank you!

[M016576]

Quote: peter

G500 installed price rarely close to a tube two tube Aspen install price.  The G500 install labor alone is generally 2x to 3x what it take to put in Aspen equipment.

G500 has no means to support a dual/redundant AHRS architecture like the Aspen 2000 and 2500 systems.

Admitedly, I've got a bias, but I also fly behind our product in a Mooney and don't think Garmin comes close to offering the capability and flexibility provided by the Aspen.

[fantom]

Quote: peter

G500 installed price rarely close to a tube two tube Aspen install price.  The G500 install labor alone is generally 2x to 3x what it take to put in Aspen equipment.

G500 has no means to support a dual/redundant AHRS architecture like the Aspen 2000 and 2500 systems.

Admitedly, I've got a bias, but I also fly behind our product in a Mooney and don't think Garmin comes close to offering the capability and flexibility provided by the Aspen.

[airdogalpha]

Nice info gents.   All much appreciated.

C-GMIO  (M20j) goes into Maxcraft next week for a new Aspen, and ...sigh... a 650.   My old DME, Apollo Gps and Adf ..all were on life support.. or beyond the grave.  I had a 430waas ordered and was very happy with that... but,   I was persauded to embrace the future...   I plopped down the extra 2k...and fastened my seat belt.     I hope I am not making a mistake as what someone earlier described as a Beta tester....    The good news is that the AC is on the same field (CYPK) as the shop...  

If it works as avertised I think it should be a pretty good panel, on a machine I truly love.

Stay tuned....      

[DaV8or]

Quote: airdogalpha

Nice info gents.   All much appreciated.

C-GMIO  (M20j) goes into Maxcraft next week for a new Aspen, and ...sigh... a 650.

If it works as avertised I think it should be a pretty good panel, on a machine I truly love.

Stay tuned....